TfM Arena: The issue is not the player count. It is the arena system.

[FrankJones]

The game is most balanced around 4p, not 3.

Also 2p is mostly a tossup. I challenge anyone on this site to play me HU and win 3 consecutive.

It's not a toss-up. That being said, I would not expect to win 3 in a row against you. You have a 411 rating, which indicates skill and experience. 411 players do not usually lose 3 in a row. I mean, if that player rated 800 were to play you 3 in a row, I might bet on him to win all 3.

But, if someone can win 2 out of 3 against you, consistently, is it still a toss-up?

[Wacky1]

Well, we're waiting? Did Rook and OP play? How did it go? . Best wishes.

[cranesflyhigh]

Not sure what I was expecting, but apparently this has become a *thread, with bwalsh posting nothing of value (as usual), and a player requesting a duel vs someone I find... highly unpleasant. I was originally intending this as a point of discussion, but oh well, lesson learned, I guess

*Moderator edit: please refrain from swearing on BGA, this is a family-friendly platform.

[RoyalRook]

He is not wrong we don't understand why you are saying and asking the same thing over and over. This topic has been discussed throughly multiple times.

[cranesflyhigh]

Cause there was no real argument from opposing viewpoints. Still wasn't. I just find 2p supremacist trying to meagerly flex without any arguments backing them, and it is freaking exhausting that this viewpoint is still dominating.

I have played many board games. Terraforming Mars for some reason has the the most toxic playerbase of them all. And I do trace it back to the cult of the 2p supremacy.

[bwalsh96]

Thanks Rook. It’s literally been discussed already.

It’s also a board game, let alone an online forum to a board game website, so you should try to not take things so personally. People prefer 2p for all of the reasons you already know. You seem like a good player, so you know why good players (“supremacists” as you call them) don’t like 3p. Sure, I’ll play it with my friends because I love games. You are talking about a player base that has played 2p competitively for the last several years on a different platform. Of course there is going to be some bias from that player pool to the mode they grew up with. That’s all there’s to it. Thanks.

[FrankJones]

I prefer 2p with corporate and drafting. I think draft and corporate are "required" for it to be a "real" game of TFM. I have heard people argue that drafting adds no skill, because it removes the "skill" of "making do with what you are dealt", which I find a nonsensical argument.

Although some cards are not priced correctly at 2-player, I still think that adding a 3rd player adds in some random variance and other undesirable traits to the game. But I am not going to say that 3-player or 4-player is "wrong".

I also hate preludes, whereas 95+% of people seem to think preludes are mandatory. That said, I have very little wait time getting a 2-player game without preludes started.

We all just need to be respectful of one another's preferences.

[primrose1234]

I just find 2p supremacist trying to meagerly flex without any arguments backing them, and it is freaking exhausting that this viewpoint is still dominating.

I gave you several reasons.

Terraforming Mars for some reason has the the most toxic playerbase of them all.

And you are doing your part.

[HappyMeaI]

Allow me to re-iterate. The game is most balanced in the 4p format. The HU format is fun, but it is toss-up. If you don’t understand that, then you don’t understand variance. That in mind, surely a 100-200 elo player will almost certainly lose to a 400+ consistently because of the skill gap, but like in Poker (which I play professionally), as the gap narrows, so does the edge. People can easily go on 10+ game runs in HU and think they are the best in the world or something.

Prelude IS mandatory. Without it I find myself snoozing off quite frequently. It does add a lot more variance, especially in HU. There are game breaking cards in this game, whether you like it or not (for the HU format). Those cards are Earth Cata, Protected Habitats, and AI. If either of those cards are played by the 5th gen in a HU game, it’s over, and there’s a very high likelihood these cards will be drawn between two players. Now maybe you’ve taken a game or two against players who are good and have pulled these cards early. Congratulations, you got lucky.

Draft is mandatory. Without it, the game is a farce. You can’t take any non-draft games seriously.

Personally, I find a negligible difference in skill level between a 300 elo and 600 elo player. I’ve defeated both and lost to both. The 600 elo player just puts in more games and weathers the short-term variance.

[primrose1234]

Prelude IS mandatory. Without it I find myself snoozing off quite frequently. It does add a lot more variance, especially in HU. There are game breaking cards in this game, whether you like it or not (for the HU format). Those cards are Earth Cata, Protected Habitats, and AI. If either of those cards are played by the 5th gen in a HU game, it’s over, and there’s a very high likelihood these cards will be drawn between two players. Now maybe you’ve taken a game or two against players who are good and have pulled these cards early. Congratulations, you got lucky.

Not mentioning Mars-U, but calling AI game breaking tells me that RoyalRook will indeed win 9 out of 10 games against you.
Maybe 10 out of 10, I am not sure about that.