Multicolor finess : priority on finess position or already clue card ?

[vcnll]

4 player game, avalanche is on.
M hand : X X 1 multi (has a green clue on it from previous round but not direct play clue) X
V hand : not important
U hand : 2 multi (unknow) 4 multi (unknow) 3black (clue as 3, they know it is 3black cause 5 and 4bk was played to respond to 3clue) X
R hand : X X X 3multi (has a blue clue on it from previous round but not direct play clue)

I clued 4with a number clue in U hand on the 4 multi. I was hoping M respond with 1multi (marked green already) then U play blind 2multi in finess position, R play 3multi (marked blue) and U finish the sequence playing 4 multi.

Did not happend : M respond to the 4 clue playing his blind finess position. LUCKY it was a playable 3w.
U did NOT played his 4 on the top of the 3w
M did not played any further and did not play their green clued card.

So question : if a finess sequence like that concerns multi card. Should we play first the card already marked with color (if not pure color of course) ? or play finess like M did ?

thx !!

table #646715033

[Travis Hall]

Marked match over blind. Green matches multi (as long as there is not negative colour clue on the card) so green should play.

[Travis Hall]

If you’ve got a spare token, I’d say that is worth a colour clue on the 3m, so that it plays immediately. Then the 4m is safe if it does play.

[Romain672]

Prompt = Card already saved, usually with already some informations.


Yeah I agree with Travis Hall. Two points though:

- often, you can have negatives on the prompted card. That can be with other negative clues, that can be with how that card was saved (having a 1 saved with color is extremely rare), that can be with context (with high trust, you can have positions where if the saved card was m1, then you would have done something different, like clueing m2, not making another m1 be discarded, clueing number 1 on you instead of color, and so on).

- is green clue available on m4? Here it's not because of m2 so you should just play the saved card if you got no other reason not to. But if it was, since it's a position which can goes wrong very fastly:
If clueing green is as good or just slightly less good than anything else, you should be clueing green to insist that you want that green card to be played first.
On the contrary, if green is available, as good or better than clueing blue on m4, and you decide to clue blue, I would play my finesse position instead.
If green is slightly worst than blue and you clue blue, I would advise you to not clue it if one of the two options is bad. It's too much prone to errors.

[vcnll]

thh for feedback and tips !

[Blacktango]

I agree with Romain, if you use a color clue you MUST use the same color of the marked card IF you can without extra marking/ambiguity.

Ex 1 : you clue Y to make played the already marked card



Easy for Bob, he plays the matching color card.

Ex 2 : you clue W to make played the newest card



Bob knows that you could have clued Y instead of W, but you didn't. He plays his newest card instead of the Y one.

Ex 3 : you clue W to make played the already marked card



Bob knows that you couldn't clue Y. He plays his card the most likely M2: the marked one.

[Travis Hall]

I agree with Romain, if you use a color clue you MUST use the same color of the marked card IF you can without extra marking/ambiguity.

This is generally a good rule, but there may be certain exceptions. The one I can think of would be when the person who has to respond has not drawn a new card since their colour-marked card was marked. In that case, any new colour clue that would cause a multi to play shoukd cause the marked card to be played in response (assuming a response is required at all - not for direct play clues, for example).

It may still be a good idea to use the matching colour, when all else is equal, to minimise the opportunity for error. There will be some situations in which using a different colour will have significant advantages.

[Romain672]

Here is hgroup's position: https://hanabi.github.io/variant-specif ... ree-choice (+free choice finesse just under)

Free Choice is defined as when a player has two or more options to clue a card and all of the options would only touch the same card(s).

And so with those rules, even if the negative clue would give an extremely important information, that would be non conventional, and without knowing extremely well your teammates would lead to a bomb. The value of complexity of context and value of being able to define clearly which card to play is pretty good.