BANG! Chat rule enforcement

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Yanez De Gomera
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 July 2022, 20:19

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by Yanez De Gomera »

Falzano wrote: 29 November 2024, 03:51 In particolare, in virtù della diffusione "universale" dell'inglese (che credo sia anche la "lingua madre" di BGA), è fondamentale che quelle siano le regole corrette, in quanto è dall'inglese che derivano tutte le altre traduzioni.
Ti sto dicendo che non è affatto come dici tu, tant'è le regole inglesi hanno subito le piu' recenti modifiche basandosi su quelle italiane, poiché il dettaglio dei punti discussi su questo thread non erano presenti nemmeno sul loro regolamento (inglese) in precedenza. Vorrei chiarire che ai fini del gioco sono perfettamente d'accordo che per essere globalmente allineati sarebbe meglio essere tutti d'accordo tutti con lo stesso regolamento, ma dico anche che se un gioco viene sviluppato qui su BGA da un team italiano basandosi sul regolamento italiano, è l'italiano che fa da "padre" delle traduzioni estere, non il contrario solo perché BGA è un sito estero, tra l'altro Francese.

Per farti un altro esempio il gioco VEKTORACE che ho seguito dalla versione beta qui (ed ero parte del gruppo Facebook) nasce da game designer italiani, sviluppato su BGA da programmatore italiano con regolamento italiano. Chiunque poteva prendere il regolamento e tradurlo in altre lingue, ma è pur sempre il regolamento italiano quello che fa da riferimento, se non ai game designer e sviluppatore in persona, allora sta ai giocatori appassionati che lo seguono e magari sono up to date con tutti gli aggiornamenti, di riportare anche sui regolamenti esteri tutte le eventuali modifiche avvenute nel tempo. Spero di aver chiarito il (mio) punto di vista.
Falzano wrote: 29 November 2024, 03:51 Se metti il gioco in inglese e vai a leggerti l'How To, trovi questo:
---
Rules
Talking/Writing in chat: talking "at the table" is part of the game, as is lying about your role. However, as expressly specified by Emiliano Sciarra (creator of Bang!) on boardgamegeek.com:

1) One "cannot say which cards are in your hand, nor you can ask directly another player whether he approves the playing of some card or not" (SOURCE: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/282531 ... lk-and-bga)

2) One "may try to tell other players what to do: if they will obey, on the other hand, that's up to them (as well as finding a way to explain their behaviour...)" (SOURCE: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/147495 ... 7#20986387

---

In grassetto, al punto 2), c'è l'esatto contrario di quello che scrivi tu. È un errore, in quanto nel link a supporto, Sciarra non dice che "uno può chiedere di giocare una carta", ma che può farlo lo Sceriffo (non uno chiunque!).
Ma resta il fatto che chi gioca in inglese, e tutti quelli che giocano con regole tradotte dall'inglese, leggono quella regola lì.
Il post al punto 2 come puoi notare riporta una nota di Emiliano Sciarra che risale al 2015 mentre la nota che riporto io sempre presa da un post di Emiliano Sciarra risale al 2022 (vedi qui: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/282531 ... 5#39616075) quindi per inciso primo non è "quello che scrivo io" ma è invece "quello che riporto io" in modo più colloquiale rispetto a quello che ha scritto SEMPRE Emiliano Sciarra, secondo per quanto possa essere sempre parola del medesimo autore nonché game designer del gioco, tendo a prendere per legittimo un intervento più recente e attinente al contesto di BGA nello specifico (vedi il titolo del thread da me linkato è proprio riferito a "table talk and BGA") rispetto ad uno più vecchio di 7 anni che tra l'altro non è nemmeno contestualizzato al contesto che ci interessa, visto che è una nota relativa al gioco LIVE.

Sei d'accordo o pensi che mi stia sbagliando?
Falzano wrote: 29 November 2024, 03:51 Per quanto riguarda High Noon, stavo solo facendoti notare che avevi interpretato male quello che si intendeva. In ogni caso, ricordare gli effetti delle carte, almeno in arena, per "aiutare" un giocatore distratto, per me dovrebbe essere vietato.
Infatti, ti ringrazio per aver puntualizzato. Ci sta quello che dici tu, semplicemente lo considero parte del punto 2 di cui sopra (punto 2 post 2022).
Falzano wrote: 29 November 2024, 03:51 PS: quando tu parli di "regole di Bang", mi pare evidente che fai riferimento alle regole da torneo, che sono quelle più stringenti. Ma queste non si trovano dentro la scatola per cui, a fare i pignoli, non è sbagliato che non siano riportate su BGA: credo che bisognerebbe prima trovare un accordo tra i partecipanti alla comunità e magari agli sviluppatori del gioco.
No affatto, io le "regole di Torneo" non le avevo affatto considerate prima dell'ultimo update proprio perché anche secondo me troppo stringenti per il contesto BGA. Di sicuro le ha inserite sulla nostra wiki qualcun altro, sinceramente non avevo nemmeno messo il riferimento al pdf online, ma di certo l'ho tenuto proprio per lo spirito di collaborazione tra editors su wiki. LEGGI: sono d'accordo con te sul "non è sbagliato che non siano riportate su BGA".
Falzano wrote: 29 November 2024, 03:51 Anche molte delle cose che dice lo stesso Sciarra vanno prese con le molle: cioè, va benissimo parlare durante le partite "in real life". Ma su BGA, dietro una tastiera, in un contesto internazionale, credo bisognerebbe limitarsi molto di più.
Ecco, a maggior ragione allora dovresti essere d'accordo con quello che ho riportato in merito ai post di Sciarra del 2015 VS post di Sciarra del 2022, perché è proprio quello che penso anche io ;)
-Taavi-
Posts: 1
Joined: 01 February 2025, 22:47

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by -Taavi- »

Bang chat rules should be rewritten somewhere loud and clear. :geek: I find the current rules confusing and they feel somewhat unofficial. Which things I am permitted to discuss in the chat and which I am not? :idea: For example, can I suggest whom to shoot or not?? :|

Secondly, I find the mouse cursor pointer very irritating. :oops: When I play from my mobile phone and someone uses the mouse cursor, my whole screen zooms in and out, making it impossible to play until the other person quits using the mouse. And, if I understood the rules correctly, you cant suggest whom to shoot, then what the heck is the function of the mouse cursor?? Why is it there in the first place? In my opinion, the mouse cursor should be disabled asap.

So, calling for some clear, well-written clarifications about the rules. :roll:
chakloon
Posts: 4
Joined: 31 January 2025, 03:39

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by chakloon »

I agree with Vadim, AVTactics, Yanez (very experienced competitive player, who played tournaments also and knows the culture of this game), and Taavi and many other players who consider table advisers to be a form of unfair play.

THIS IS A MAIN PROBLEM IN BANG
Players whos giving advices in chat how to play their cards. I consider this as a cheating. And funny thing you cant report them.

For example, some situations I have experienced on Arena mode here:
1) Jesse stole your card and tell everybody this card in chat = not considered as cheating? ok
2) Outlaw panic beer from his outlaw teammate WITHOUT knowing he has beer, because he texting him in private chat. Its not a cheating? ok
3) When outlaw ask teammate outlaw to kill or not to kill, to get bounty +3 cards. Its not cheating and fair play?
4) Or asking "do you have bang?" so he can play or not to play indians.
5) Using mouse click to point on them, so they can kill him and get +3 cards.
6) Using mouse click to point on target player to show who attack first.

Why its not against the rules? Is it fairplay? I dont think so

And it happens over and over again in games. Players keeps giving advice in Bang game, when main logic is that winning team is the team who made LESS mistakes. How you can play if someone non-stop giving advices to his team mates. Its team game I agree, but team individual game, not 1v1 captain game with advices. For me its the key problem. Maybe its not considering as a cheating (no clear rules about this), but its 100% not fair in my opinion. No fun to play against advisers. Admins should not allow this advisers use chat for cheating and making advantages for his team by unfair moves like this.

You can also ask judges on !Bang tournaments in real life, can you shout and tell what card to pick from general store or target player openly to your team mates. For example, "Lets target vice first" = ofcourse its 100% against the rules and not fairplay, every judgeman will say and disqualify this particular player. So why should it be allowed to break the rules on BGA in online bang?

THE SOLUTIONS I SEE TO SOLVE CHEATING IN CHAT BANG ARENA
1) Allow people report advices and accept them as a cheating mechanics, it will prevend unfair players to give advice. Ofcourse they can do it in private chat, but allowing to report those unfair players will make it cleaner and will be the first step.
2) Unable mouse clicker to avoid pointing the target. So nobody will do it to target and cheat.
3) Make a bang chat rules, official rules and FAIR rules that will be followed because you, as the site's admins and moderators, wrote and approved them. And put it on main page, so everybody can see these rules of chat

So after that people will understand it clearly, and will play fair and not violate the rules and culture of !Bang
kuzestanx
Posts: 68
Joined: 07 January 2022, 03:09

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by kuzestanx »

chakloon wrote: 24 March 2025, 03:47 I agree with Vadim, AVTactics, Yanez (very experienced competitive player, who played tournaments also and knows the culture of this game), and Taavi and many other players who consider table advisers to be a form of unfair play...
People may use any home rules, including keeping the silence, but can't demand following their rules on BGA. Your paper rules says nothing about speech. FAQ says, and I was surprised first time, as who cared:
Q01. Can players talk during the game?
A. Of course! That’s one of the most amusing aspects of the game. However, players cannot ask
questions directly related to the playing of the cards (e.g. they cannot ask the Sheriff if they can
play a Gatling).
Game's creator says there https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/282531 ... lk-and-bga
In BANG! you may always say anything, even your role (but of course you can lie, so you are not telling any real information and it's up to other players believe in you or not). Actually, table talk is one of the most fun and important part of the game: you could even guess some player's role from how (and how much) he is talking during a game.
The only exception to this general rule is: you cannot say which cards are in your hand, nor you can ask directly another player whether he approves the playing of some card or not.
Of course, talking via a chat is way more awkard and slow than at a real table and you may want to limit your overall talkativeness to speed up the game, but that's a whole different story.
I look at his words as a wish, not as a rule, since he did not record it in the rules or in the FAQ

According to these "rules", it's all comes simple:
For example, some situations I have experienced on Arena mode here:
1) Jesse stole your card and tell everybody this card in chat = not considered as cheating? ok
2) Outlaw panic beer from his outlaw teammate WITHOUT knowing he has beer, because he texting him in private chat. Its not a cheating? ok
3) When outlaw ask teammate outlaw to kill or not to kill, to get bounty +3 cards. Its not cheating and fair play?
4) Or asking "do you have bang?" so he can play or not to play indians.
5) Using mouse click to point on them, so they can kill him and get +3 cards.
6) Using mouse click to point on target player to show who attack first.
1 - cheating if we accept author's wish
2 - I'd say there is a problem in private chat, not in the game's actions
3 - Its not cheating and it is fair play, yes
4 - cheating according to the FAQ and author's wish
5 - it is ok
6 - it is ok

It is amazing how zealous players make up rules based on their wishes, although even author is not that severe. I do respect chakloon as also players he mentioned as he fights for fair play. I, like them, am against unfair play - all players should be in the same conditions. Some use hints, some don't. I'll share my personal experience: it was very unpleasant when the outlaws coordinated their actions, but I couldn't with my sheriff as he called any communication cheating. This is unfair, the teams were in different conditions. We see different approaches to the hints etc. I consider both of our decisions FAIR. As your guest, I would have followed your rules if you asked me to. But on BGA, your decision seems much more complicated. It's easier to tell people that they can share any information than to ban a lot of players and talk about veiled hints.

The problem of all these restrictions they are based on irl tournaments rules. U can fint it there https://bang.dvgiochi.com/northamerica/#Rules and there http://www.dvgiochi.com/bang_champ/Mate ... onato/BANG! Campionato nazionale_Regolamento-daTorneo.pdf. NA version only bans
seeking or taking advice from people not involved in the tournament
Italian version also bans
dare agli altri giocatori istruzioni reiterate sulle azioni da compiere al tavolo, allo scopo di giocare al loro posto o di pilotarne forzatamente le scelte
So there is restrictions for hints for those who DON'T play and restrictions for RECURRING hints as someone stands behind you and tells you what to do. But the main problem is this championsips' rules oblige to find a JUDGE who will not play, but who will judge fairly. Now the scales will fall from your eyes, it's better to sit on a chair, be ready... There are no judges in the BANG on BGA! I bet chakloon could be the fairest judge even playing the game, but do I have any guarantees that other players will not abuse red thumbs? No. As we see, even fair players supprot speech restrictions, which do not exist. It is a good place to talk also about this problem https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40543 .

I'll repeat, keeping the silence is way to make game fair,but in the irl championship, not on the BGA.

Good rules are respected by players and violators are punished. These rules are terrible because you can follow them if you want, but you can't force others to do the same. All you have is a red thumb and the knowledge that you'll have to block most of the players in the bang.

Rules should apply to players equally. Rules exist for everyone or for no one. The only way out, other than totalitarianism like to "disable chat and cursor sharing" is to use the chat and cursor together as you see fit, limited by the rules of BGA.
Waspq
Posts: 17
Joined: 05 July 2023, 14:56

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by Waspq »

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Last edited by Waspq on 18 October 2025, 21:33, edited 1 time in total.
chakloon
Posts: 4
Joined: 31 January 2025, 03:39

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by chakloon »

It can be done much easier. Make a disclaimer at the beginning of each game, in the chat a message like, "Advices in the chat during games are not welcomed and respected by most players of this platform, by default advices are not allowed"

You can collect a sample of players and ask them whether they support advices or not, for example you can took my experience situations. Most players will be against advices and for fair play. Like all players on this site.

So its could be a good solution and easy for admins and moderators, to put an auto-disclaimer at the start of every game.
kuzestanx
Posts: 68
Joined: 07 January 2022, 03:09

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by kuzestanx »

chakloon wrote: 25 March 2025, 09:06 It can be done much easier. Make a disclaimer at the beginning of each game, in the chat a message like, "Advices in the chat during games are not welcomed and respected by most players of this platform, by default advices are not allowed"

You can collect a sample of players and ask them whether they support advices or not, for example you can took my experience situations. Most players will be against advices and for fair play. Like all players on this site.

So its could be a good solution and easy for admins and moderators, to put an auto-disclaimer at the start of every game.
It is funny how zealousers avoid to answer my last comments xD

First, u r not a majority. I see advices in every second game, and TOO rare I see someone is unhappy in chat. It occurs due to advices and chat are natural part of the game.

Second, u don't suggest a solution, re-read my last comment. Messages are not look like "play bang and panic to sheriff", so players often will have a right to say "hey, but I am not breaking anything", so still to judge people u must have judges.

This disclaimer will distract players from the game, this disclaimer will preach your personal unpopular wishes, which are not included in the game, this disclaimer will spread the hate among our community.
chakloon
Posts: 4
Joined: 31 January 2025, 03:39

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by chakloon »

kuzestanx wrote: 25 March 2025, 09:28
chakloon wrote: 25 March 2025, 09:06 It can be done much easier. Make a disclaimer at the beginning of each game, in the chat a message like, "Advices in the chat during games are not welcomed and respected by most players of this platform, by default advices are not allowed"

You can collect a sample of players and ask them whether they support advices or not, for example you can took my experience situations. Most players will be against advices and for fair play. Like all players on this site.

So its could be a good solution and easy for admins and moderators, to put an auto-disclaimer at the start of every game.
It is funny how zealousers avoid to answer my last comments xD

First, u r not a majority. I see advices in every second game, and TOO rare I see someone is unhappy in chat. It occurs due to advices and chat are natural part of the game.

Second, u don't suggest a solution, re-read my last comment. Messages are not look like "play bang and panic to sheriff", so players often will have a right to say "hey, but I am not breaking anything", so still to judge people u must have judges.

This disclaimer will distract players from the game, this disclaimer will preach your personal unpopular wishes, which are not included in the game, this disclaimer will spread the hate among our community.
It is funny how advisers trying to defend themselfs and avoid to accept this is not fairplay at all xD

First of all, I am a part of MAJORITY PLAYERS who dont like unfair play and players who using chat for cheating by advices they gave and ruining the culture of !Bang game

I see every second game, people unhappy in chat by advisers who thinks they are smarter than anybody. And ofcourse people leaving the game, and dont play anymore because they see this type of behaviour in chat.

Once again Im gonna say. !Bang game is about MISTAKE. Winning team is the team who made LESS mistakes. This is a part of the game where you playing INDIVIDUALLY, to make your team win. Its not 1v1, captain to captain game with advices. Its team game with INDIVIDUAL DECISIONS OF PLAYING OWN CARDS. But Advisers want to win more games and do this unfair moves like: pick this card from store, leave me this card, lets attack this player, panic my beer in hand, kill me and get +3 bounty etc.

Its not clear rules about chat, but its 100% NOT FAIR PLAY. How you cant understand it? Or maybe you are the one who give advices? Makes sense xD

Second, making disclaimer it is a solution. Messages ARE LOOK LIKE THIS. No need to be a pro judge with 10 years practice to find out its not fair play.
chakloon wrote: 24 March 2025, 03:47
For example, some situations I have experienced on Arena mode here:
1) Jesse stole your card and tell everybody this card in chat = not considered as cheating? ok
2) Outlaw panic beer from his outlaw teammate WITHOUT knowing he has beer, because he texting him in private chat. Its not a cheating? ok
3) When outlaw ask teammate outlaw to kill or not to kill, to get bounty +3 cards. Its not cheating and fair play?
4) Or asking "do you have bang?" so he can play or not to play indians.
5) Using mouse click to point on them, so they can kill him and get +3 cards.
6) Using mouse click to point on target player to show who attack first.
The disclaimer will give players understandings that its a team game with INDIVIDUAL DECISIONS TO PLAY YOUR OWN CARDS. And thus they will not tell advices to other INDIVIDUALS players how to play THEIR OWN CARDS.

How its gonna spread hate in community if it will clear unfair players and game becomes more clean?

This disclaimer will not spread hate among our community. Maybe it spread among your community who like cheating and unfair plays by breaking moral rules and non stop advices in CARD GAME, its minority.

You say "will preach your personal unpopular wishes" xD. Its actually popular, Im just one of the players who wasted time to fully and openly speak about this problem like previously did Vadim, AVTactics and Yanez. And if I had a chance to ask only one question to all bang players "They like to play: when other players giving advices in chat or playing without advices in chat". You will be surprised, its gonna be MAJORITY and POPULAR wish xD. Nobody likes unfair plays, and the players who doing this unfairness. And also players who defend this.
kuzestanx
Posts: 68
Joined: 07 January 2022, 03:09

Re: BANG! Chat rule enforcement

Post by kuzestanx »

kuzestanx wrote: 24 March 2025, 15:10 Good rules are respected by players and violators are punished. These rules are terrible because you can follow them if you want, but you can't force others to do the same. All you have is a red thumb and the knowledge that you'll have to block most of the players in the bang.

Rules should apply to players equally. Rules exist for everyone or for no one. The only way out, other than totalitarianism like to "disable chat and cursor sharing" is to use the chat and cursor together as you see fit, limited by the rules of BGA.
same chewing over of their own reasoning :( . Apart from unsubstantiated reasoning about their own majority, there is still not even an attempt to dispute even one line of the opponent. I will be glad to discuss with someone else :)
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