I am on my 16th straight loss and I need to be told where I can improve

[FrankJones]

I don't think that's a hard rule on those two specific gens, but more like by that time your engine should be up and running and you should be focused on only cards that can get you points and get you to the endgame. By that point most of the cards don't matter.

True. In which case, the draft advice should be" Only buy cards that matter". Just like every other draft at any point in the game.

People might take advice very literally. If someone has the opportunity to buy a playable interstellar colony ship and Large convoy (with a 1 pt per animal card on the tableau) in the final draft, but doesn't buy both because a "top player" said not to buy more than one card in later drafts, that player will probably be making an error.

[FrankJones]

Yeah, if you want to win more… follow what Potatoes and Rook said.

Rook advised to buy between 6 and 10 total cards through the first 8 generations, including the initial 10 card draw. Surely that is not a winning strategy? It's difficult to win at TFM with so few cards, no?

[charliec247]

Yeah, if you want to win more… follow what Potatoes and Rook said.

Rook advised to buy between 6 and 10 total cards through the first 8 generations, including the initial 10 card draw. Surely that is not a winning strategy? It's difficult to win at TFM with so few cards, no?

I have, on multiple occasions, won with Ecoline rush playing around 10-15 cards total, ending the game with negative total card points in some cases. And it's not like it has to be a certain setup. It's just only the cards that show up at the right time and it takes a lot of discipline to buy 0-1 cards no matter how good all four look.

I don't pull it off every game but when I do it's sublime. I'm still looking into how to do it more often.

I personally would not recommend this every game as success on TfM requires evaluating the current situation and adapting accordingly. On multiple occasions I've tried to force a rush by strictly only buying terraforming cards, only to get smashed by an engine strategy.

[bwalsh96]

Frank,

Lunar beam is a high value card when played early. Terraforming is the ultimate strategy in this game and this card is super strong early. Especially if base with no prelude because heat is even more valuable. Potatoes correctly commented that heat has a ~60% win rate in games ending gen 9-10 (which is where you should aim to end games with prelude). That’s the highest for any prod type. In gens 11-12, MC and Plants win, but heat is right in the third spot. I would say you are undervaluing this card and the concept of a rush strategy. I play a good bit of base with no prelude and my games rarely go 14 gens. If you are going 14 gens, you are doing something wrong that will lose you games against higher elo opponents. They will end games on you early and you will lose. The gens referenced above are for prelude. If you are not playing prelude, just add 1-2 gens. Same story.

I would define top players as the 2k+ on Steam and the top 50 elo on BGA - with more weight on the steam guys.

Rook is just saying that lower rated players over buy cards, which is true. A way to practice that would be to have a guideline for yourself to see how it helps. Of course you may buy more or less on occasion, but generally you shouldn’t be. Lower rated players also go for big engines all the time.

This is too much to read etc. I’m going to stop here.

[FrankJones]

I have, on multiple occasions, won with Ecoline rush playing around 10-15 cards total, ending the game with negative total card points in some cases. And it's not like it has to be a certain setup. It's just only the cards that show up at the right time and it takes a lot of discipline to buy 0-1 cards no matter how good all four look.

I don't pull it off every game but when I do it's sublime. I'm still looking into how to do it more often.

I personally would not recommend this every game as success on TfM requires evaluating the current situation and adapting accordingly. On multiple occasions I've tried to force a rush by strictly only buying terraforming cards, only to get smashed by an engine strategy.

I agree, and that was my main point. A lot of hard rules were stated in this thread in a game that requires flexibility and adaptation and adjustment.

[FrankJones]

Frank,

Lunar beam is a high value card when played early.

Well, I guess the game would be rather boring if we all had the exact same ranking of cards, right? It would literally come down to luck of the draw.

Terraforming is the ultimate strategy in this game and this card is super strong early.

Yes. I terraform early whenever I can. Sometimes I do not have the cards to do it. When I play Lunar Beam at 0 MC production, I find myself very broke and struggling to play cards.

I would say you are undervaluing this card and the concept of a rush strategy.

Possibly, but I am not yet convinced. I'll take this under advisement the next time I see Lunar Beam early. I really do not think it belongs in the conversation of "Strong" cards.

I play a good bit of base with no prelude and my games rarely go 14 gens.

I rarely go 14 gens either. I think I said 12 or 13, occasionally 14. I also have a lot of 12s, and an occasional 11, and even a 10 recently. ALl 2-player without preludes.

If you are going 14 gens, you are doing something wrong that will lose you games against higher elo opponents. They will end games on you early and you will lose.

I cannot Terraform the planet myself. I almost always have a higher TR than my opponent, often much higher. Sometimes my opponent ends the game at 22 or 25 TR. That is why my games take many generations. My opponents are not Terraforming.

I would define top players as the 2k+ on Steam and the top 50 elo on BGA - with more weight on the steam guys.

That is very restrictive. Anyway, I played a lot of games against 2000+ players on steam, including some against the top 5. I do not recall any of them playing Lunar Beam all that often, or at all.

Rook is just saying that lower rated players over buy cards, which is true.

Should we listen to what Rook says? He is nowhere near "top 50" and therefore not a "top player." And thus far, I sense a lot of elitism in this thread. I have spent a lot of time writing many lengthy posts here, and nobody in this exclusive "top players" club acknowledges anything I write except to tell me I am wrong.

[RoyalRook]

2) Since you are improving, don't EVER buy more than 4 card in the initial draft, trust me you probably don't understand the main lines nor has the skill the manage the starting cash pools; which means majority of times you are overbuying, so you gg yourself from the start. As you get better then you can experiment more. So right now? Buy no more than 4 cards from the start, 1 cards each gen, no buy on gen 6 and 8. Try it, and I will see you ELO 400 in no time.

The rest of this post made good sense, but what's the theory behind not buying cards on gen 6 and 8? Never seen that piece of advice before.

Gen 6 is when you should be switching to focusing on award selection and securing VPs instead of building your engines. Unless you are Point Luna, cards like Sponsors and Space Hotels should no longer be played. Gen 8 is when you should be calculating out your gen 9 end game strategies. All those things requires large cash reserves(funding, standard tech out gen 9, large point card pay out), for beginners, low to mid level players the best things at that point is to stop buying anymore cards. Why? Even though they read my post, more than likely they still bought too many cards by gen 6, they can cover their shorts via no buy, think this as a R&R retreat. Bad players always purchase 3 on gen 2, at least 2 each gen afterward, they never had a chance against top players, this is how they draw earth cat, ai and antigrav with media + optimal yet still lose to simple combos. One of the most interesting things about TM is cash is the king!!!!! That's why you should "almost" always ALWAYS raider and sabo cash instead of minerals. Yet terraforming is mostly optimal, and engine is inferior. So be disciplined and have a large cash reserve to supplement your less powerful engine.

Frank, this is fun for me, I am one of the best player in the world, I have nothing left to prove but building up the BGA community. I think you should play more, because you won't say half the things you said if you played more. You know what I do when I am too busy to play? I replay my own seeds and studying game logs, there are levels to this, and I put in the work, so I know I won't say anything about the game unless it's true and tested.

[Sonid]

2) Since you are improving, don't EVER buy more than 4 card in the initial draft, trust me you probably don't understand the main lines nor has the skill the manage the starting cash pools; which means majority of times you are overbuying, so you gg yourself from the start. As you get better then you can experiment more. So right now? Buy no more than 4 cards from the start, 1 cards each gen, no buy on gen 6 and 8. Try it, and I will see you ELO 400 in no time.

The rest of this post made good sense, but what's the theory behind not buying cards on gen 6 and 8? Never seen that piece of advice before.

Gen 6 is when you should be switching to focusing on award selection and securing VPs instead of building your engines. Unless you are Point Luna, cards like Sponsors and Space Hotels should no longer be played. Gen 8 is when you should be calculating out your gen 9 end game strategies. All those things requires large cash reserves(funding, standard tech out gen 9, large point card pay out), for beginners, low to mid level players the best things at that point is to stop buying anymore cards. Why? Even though they read my post, more than likely they still bought too many cards by gen 6, they can cover their shorts via no buy, think this as a R&R retreat. Bad players always purchase 3 on gen 2, at least 2 each gen afterward, they never had a chance against top players, this is how they draw earth cat, ai and antigrav with media + optimal yet still lose to simple combos. One of the most interesting things about TM is cash is the king!!!!! That's why you should "almost" always ALWAYS raider and sabo cash instead of minerals. Yet terraforming is mostly optimal, and engine is inferior. So be disciplined and have a large cash reserve to supplement your less powerful engine.

Frank, this is fun for me, I am one of the best player in the world, I have nothing left to prove but building up the BGA community. I think you should play more, because you won't say half the things you said if you played more. You know what I do when I am too busy to play? I replay my own seeds and studying game logs, there are levels to this, and I put in the work, so I know I won't say anything about the game unless it's true and tested.

That is pretty sound theory, I like it. Thanks for the good explanation.

[FrankJones]

Frank, this is fun for me, I am one of the best player in the world,

And very humble too!

I have nothing left to prove but building up the BGA community.

Nobody has anything to "prove" to anybody. But if you want to claim to be one of the best players in the world, it would help if you a higher rating than some of the people you act so smug and condescending to; just a suggestion.

I think you should play more, because you won't say half the things you said if you played more.

I have probably played the game 600 times, maybe more.

You know what I do when I am too busy to play? I replay my own seeds and studying game logs, there are levels to this, and I put in the work, so I know I won't say anything about the game unless it's true and tested.

Likewise. See? We have a lot in common. Cheers!

For what it's worth, I am 3-1 in games against players rated expert or higher; and the one loss was by 3 points (And admittedly, I blew the game and should have won, but it was because of blatant tactical errors, not because I do not understand the cards).

I realize that is only 4 games. But, for whatever reason, players rated 500+ rarely seem to join my games. Nevertheless, if I were as inept as you seem to think I am, I don't think I would be 3-1 (and very nearly 4-0) against high-rated players.

But, that's just my opinion. I welcome discussion and analysis, even from you, even though you do not seem to think very much of me. It's all good.

[FrankJones]

Gen 6 is when you should be switching to focusing on award selection and securing VPs instead of building your engines. Unless you are Point Luna, cards like Sponsors and Space Hotels should no longer be played. Gen 8 is when you should be calculating out your gen 9 end game strategies. All those things requires large cash reserves(funding, standard tech out gen 9, large point card pay out), for beginners, low to mid level players the best things at that point is to stop buying anymore cards. Why? Even though they read my post, more than likely they still bought too many cards by gen 6, they can cover their shorts via no buy, think this as a R&R retreat. Bad players always purchase 3 on gen 2, at least 2 each gen afterward, they never had a chance against top players, this is how they draw earth cat, ai and antigrav with media + optimal yet still lose to simple combos. One of the most interesting things about TM is cash is the king!!!!! That's why you should "almost" always ALWAYS raider and sabo cash instead of minerals. Yet terraforming is mostly optimal, and engine is inferior. So be disciplined and have a large cash reserve to supplement your less powerful engine.

Yes, of course it makes little sense to play production cards late in the game. But you were advising people to basically not buy ANY cards. Sometimes a player needs point-scoring cards in the end-game. I do not think you clarified to whoever your target audience is that late-game point cards can be valuable and shouldn't simply be discarded because "engine building is over", or whatever it is you said.

Yes, Sabotage should almost always go to cash. And, one must be careful playing cards that require cash when other cards might be available to pay with metal. I agree with you. Cash is crucial. Awards cannot be funded with metal. Milestones cannot be claimed with Metal. Etc.

Buying too many cards is always a bad thing. Buying one card when the correct number to buy as zero - that is also a mistake. Buying one card when the correct number was 2 - that is a mistake. Telling people exactly how many cards they should buy without any context regarding WHAT the cards actually are is just not sound advice, and will cause some players to actually make MORE errors, not fewer. I understand you are trying to give simple, basic advice, but a disclaimer here and there to indicate levels of nuance couldn't hurt.