Winning %

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JohannesTheGreatest
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 November 2024, 03:31

Re: Winning %

Post by JohannesTheGreatest »

GifusGray wrote: 24 April 2025, 18:28 Yeah, that would be nice. Thank you in advance.

Here's the links:

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=663557000
As fromer Rank1 Arena Player i would like to give my advice as well to your game (only on the starting hand). I have not looked through the actual game.


There is only one play with your starting hand:

You always keep Painted Whitestart with this 5 starting cards.

Now you have already food production going. The worms are coming in.

You also always keep the black-necked stilt. You always have worms to play it and 2 cards are rlly good. This card is generally rlly good.

Northern Shoveler always goes out. Even if your other 4 cards are worse (dont know if its possible). But this cards sucks. Just never keep it. 95% it is the wrong play.


Than you have ONE real decision for the starting hand:

You either keep 4 cards (only discard northern shoveler) and 1 worm. Or you keep 3 cards (painted whitestart, black necked tilt with the spotted owl) and 1 worm and one mouse.

The first move was correct though. You go in the water for the first move and draw House Finch if you are going first. But you need it only later so dont bother with the food at the start. You also only play it later. Probably in round 2 or something or end of round 1.

Than you Play Painted Whitestart in the forest.

You gain food get yourself a mouse (always possible cause there are 2) and get an extra worm.

You place 2 eggs on your painted whitestart.

You play spotted owl in the forest.

You get food (3)

You play black necked stilt and draw 2 cards.

You get food (3)

You play House Finch or something you have drawn.
Pelgrinfe Falcon would be also good in the egg department in your situation to just draw.

This is a solid start.

You got a really good starting hand. It is hard to loose from this position.

For the rest of the game:

Dont play more than 2 birds in the forrest.
End on 0-1 handcards not more.
Last edited by JohannesTheGreatest on 27 April 2025, 01:05, edited 1 time in total.
FrankJones
Posts: 2449
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Winning %

Post by FrankJones »

JohannesTheGreatest wrote: 26 April 2025, 22:27

As fromer Rank1 Arena Player i would like to give my advice as well to your game (only on the starting hand). I have not looked through the actual game.


There is only one play with your starting hand:

You always keep Painted Whitestart with this 5 starting cards.

Now you have already food production going. The worms are coming in.

You also always keep the black-necked stilt. You always have worms to play it and 2 cards are rlly good. This card is generally rlly good.




Than you have ONE real decision for the starting hand:

You either keep 4 cards and 1 worm. Or you keep 3 cards with the spotted owl and 1 worm and one mouse.

I'm confused.

So, the keepers are the painted whitestart, black-necked stilt, and maybe the owl? That sounds like "Keep 3 cards and 2 food, or keep 2 cards and 3 food".
Ceaseless
Posts: 1306
Joined: 12 November 2022, 17:06

Re: Winning %

Post by Ceaseless »

FrankJones wrote: 27 April 2025, 00:06
JohannesTheGreatest wrote: 26 April 2025, 22:27

As fromer Rank1 Arena Player i would like to give my advice as well to your game (only on the starting hand). I have not looked through the actual game.


There is only one play with your starting hand:

You always keep Painted Whitestart with this 5 starting cards.

Now you have already food production going. The worms are coming in.

You also always keep the black-necked stilt. You always have worms to play it and 2 cards are rlly good. This card is generally rlly good.




Than you have ONE real decision for the starting hand:

You either keep 4 cards and 1 worm. Or you keep 3 cards with the spotted owl and 1 worm and one mouse.

I'm confused.

So, the keepers are the painted whitestart, black-necked stilt, and maybe the owl? That sounds like "Keep 3 cards and 2 food, or keep 2 cards and 3 food".
I don't follow how you got there. They said "keep 4 cards and 1 food, or 3 cards and 2 food". Where are you reading the 2 cards and 3 food option? Whitestart is obvious as the food powerhouse of the hand, which is backing up Black-Neck Stilt really nicely as a starter option to get cards early. Spotted Owl is card 3 in their book, with the rat as food 2 if they don't go for card 4.

For some reason Spotted Sandpiper is on the line here, but I don't think there's a great case for not taking it as card 4. Whitestart is a 1 food starter, so absolute worst case the dead card gets tossed for an extra food down the line, whether it be rat/worm, or even held on for a later grab. Doubtful the card will be dead though. It meshes with the Whitestart worm flow and the generic 1 food for 5 points is dumb enough, but considering its nest is a round 3 goal and its type means one more pure wetlander grants a 3-point bonus the cards holds too many easily usable traits to disregard.

The real debate to me from the start is if you actually need to grab House Finch turn 1, which everyone else has taken as a given. The card is good, but is it THAT good? No doubt the card is excellent and top of the list of cards to draw, with the consideration of drawing the turn before you expect the opponent to if needed, but I'm not sold on sacrificing my entire first draw or it given how awkward the situation looks for everyone's starting hands with it. The opponent has no fruit with none in the feeder, 2 food and is going second. If they see you spend turn 1 on your worm with 4 cards in hand, are they really going to single draw a House Finch they can't even play yet themselves? It's not like they're expecting you to single draw it after declining to turn 1, and so if they want it why not play a bird in the wetland and get things set up first? Normally they'd get to see you build up your wetland, allowing them time to decide if they want to draw it the turn before they think you will. Black-Necked as your first wetland play of the game gives them much less to forsee, their only hint being your double worm turn 2 play, which could happen for several reasons. Had I known at the time they had a Hummingbird for their lead play into the Grassland I might have reconsidered those odds, though no way to know until their own first turn had passed what their intentions are. So, there's a real chance I'd get greedy and hope to snatch it under my regular drawing schedule before they realize it rather than burning a full turn for it.
FrankJones
Posts: 2449
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Winning %

Post by FrankJones »

Ceaseless wrote: 27 April 2025, 03:07

I don't follow how you got there. They said "keep 4 cards and 1 food, or 3 cards and 2 food". Where are you reading the 2 cards and 3 food option? Whitestart is obvious as the food powerhouse of the hand, which is backing up Black-Neck Stilt really nicely as a starter option to get cards early. Spotted Owl is card 3 in their book, with the rat as food 2 if they don't go for card 4.

For some reason Spotted Sandpiper is on the line here, but I don't think there's a great case for not taking it as card 4. Whitestart is a 1 food starter, so absolute worst case the dead card gets tossed for an extra food down the line, whether it be rat/worm, or even held on for a later grab. Doubtful the card will be dead though. It meshes with the Whitestart worm flow and the generic 1 food for 5 points is dumb enough, but considering its nest is a round 3 goal and its type means one more pure wetlander grants a 3-point bonus the cards holds too many easily usable traits to disregard.

The real debate to me from the start is if you actually need to grab House Finch turn 1, which everyone else has taken as a given. The card is good, but is it THAT good? No doubt the card is excellent and top of the list of cards to draw, with the consideration of drawing the turn before you expect the opponent to if needed, but I'm not sold on sacrificing my entire first draw or it given how awkward the situation looks for everyone's starting hands with it. The opponent has no fruit with none in the feeder, 2 food and is going second. If they see you spend turn 1 on your worm with 4 cards in hand, are they really going to single draw a House Finch they can't even play yet themselves? It's not like they're expecting you to single draw it after declining to turn 1, and so if they want it why not play a bird in the wetland and get things set up first? Normally they'd get to see you build up your wetland, allowing them time to decide if they want to draw it the turn before they think you will. Black-Necked as your first wetland play of the game gives them much less to forsee, their only hint being your double worm turn 2 play, which could happen for several reasons. Had I known at the time they had a Hummingbird for their lead play into the Grassland I might have reconsidered those odds, though no way to know until their own first turn had passed what their intentions are. So, there's a real chance I'd get greedy and hope to snatch it under my regular drawing schedule before they realize it rather than burning a full turn for it.
Dude, I am lost.

Is the house finch THAT good? Probably not. Obviously the most precious resource in this game is action cubes. I HATE drawing ONE card when I have a playable water bird.

My confusion was, you said the decision was to keep 4 card and one food or 3 cads and 2 food.

But you did not mention the spotted sandpiper.

You said the whitestart and the stilt are obvious keepers - no objection here.

So then, what is the other definite keeper that made you say the options are to keep 4 cards or 3? The spotted sandpiper?

My apologies if I am being obtuse here. I wasn't clear on how you went from "2 definite keeps and maybe 3" to "Now the only decision is whether to keep 4 cards or 3".

Again, Apologies if I am misunderstanding what you said.
Last edited by FrankJones on 27 April 2025, 03:31, edited 1 time in total.
FrankJones
Posts: 2449
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Winning %

Post by FrankJones »

tangentially related: How awesome would Food web Expert be here ? :)
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GifusGray
Posts: 10
Joined: 26 May 2024, 10:30

Re: Winning %

Post by GifusGray »

Thank you very much! This was very helpful, and good stuff to study about.

FrankJones wrote: 24 April 2025, 23:44
GifusGray wrote: 24 April 2025, 18:28 Yeah, that would be nice. Thank you in advance.

Here's the links:

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=663557000

1. Northern shoveler is a bad bird. Cannot use a precious food to keep that card. It’s 4 food for 7 points and does the same thing as spotted sandpiper, which is 5 points for 1 food. You must be mindful of the points to food ratio. You don’t really need that nest, your other two birds have that nest for the R3 goal.

2. You used a “draw card” action to take the House Finch. The Very Strong House Finch. I am okay with this, even though ideally you get to place your spotted Sandpiper before activating the wetland.

3. Your secpond play is a significant error, caused by the fact that you kept the norther shoveler and no worm. You have 2 birds that require a worm, and you kept a cherry. You should have played the painted whitestart as your first card, then when you gain food, you get 2 food instead of one. So, this is already a game in which you are very far behind. And now you still only have one worm, and two cards that require a worm. I think I see your reasoning – you wanted a cherry for the house Finch. But, that’s why you need to keep only the painted whitestart and the spotted sandpiper, and keep a worm, grain, and cherry. You must examine your starting situation and plan you first 3 moves. Your first five moves should have been, draw house finch, play the painted whitestart, then gain food, netting you two worms. Then play the spotted sandpiper. Then play the house finch. At that point, you have a good bird in each habitat, one extra food, and you’re looking good for the end round goal. Sixth turn you draw cards, gaining 2 cards. Then you lay eggs and activate the house finch, doing a tuck and draw. You might even get a playable bird (now that you have one food and one egg, which would almost certainly win the R1 goal.

4. On your next turn in the actual game, you again did the single card draw for the peregrine falcon. Why? You have a worm. Play the spotted sandpiper. The peregrine falcon does nothing for your bonus card or the end-round goals. SO far you have done a “gain single resource” 3 times, have played no birds (The EOR goal is birds played), and have zero points, and no brown powers to use. Honestly, this game is already lost at this point. That’s too many sub-optimal plays to recover from.

5. Then you played the northern shoveler. You basically traded 2 grain for 2 points. That’s a game-losing error in the first round. A food is worth WAY more than a point in the early game. The spotted sandpiper was the play. You have the resources for a 4th bird, but because of the inefficient actions, you have not yet laid eggs and therefore cannot play a 4th bird, and your opponent will win the EOR goal, which is a 3 or 6 point swing (depending on whether you tie or win the goal.)

6. On your 8th turn, there are two major errors. You took the broad Winged Hawk (why?), and also, you are drawing cards when the round is about to end and put out new cards. The play here is to lay eggs and swap a card using the house finch. You are grabbing cards that do nothing for your bonus card or any of the end round goals. Why? What’s the plan?

Round 2:
1. The wild turkey. It will be awhile before you can play this bird, and then it has no ongoing ability. You need to build an engine with brown powers. You still have the spotted sandpiper in your hand from the start. That’s bad. Why are you still drawing birds? You already have the sandpiper and two birds you wanted enough to spend valuable turns getting them (The hawk and the falcon). And you have the excellent black tern (Wetland only, helps your bonus card, star nest which helps the end round goal).

2. Also, you have the house finch! It’s awesome. Use it. You gain 2 eggs, a tuck, and a card swap. That’s 3 points and a crucial card swap. Instead, you did an action that gives you 2 cards and your opponent 1, and gave you no points and no crucial eggs.

3. And you just took a fourth rat. Why? You have 3 already. You need to get a worm and get Foster’s Tern on the board. You’re nowhere close to being able to play the Egret, and even then, you do not need more than 3 rats. There is no reason to play both predators.

4. Now you play the Peregrine falcon. This bird gives static points if it succeeds. Early game you want usable resources from brown powers. The Tree Swallow should be a priority.

5. You tucked the tree swallow ☹ A high value bird that meets your bonus card.

6. Next is the broad winged hawk. A bad unless you have rodentologist or falconer bonus card. Again, even if it succeeds (it rarely does), you get no usable resource. This is a game of efficiency and resource management.

7. You could have just gained 2 food by tossing the hawk, saving an action cube (by not playing it), and then played both Wilson’s snipe and the spotted sandpiper.

Round 3: You played the Wilson’s snipe. I would not have done that. You need the white=-throated swift – you are going to have extra cards from using your wetland, and it is crucial to have a “tuck and egg” to convert a junk card into two points. If I were your opponent, I would “hate draft” the white-throated swift by activating my middle row. More to the point, you already should have had the Wilson’s snipe on the board, but you played the hawk instead.

8. Now you draw cards, but did not take the swift. This is a significant error.

9. Now you’re laying eggs. Had you taken the white-throated swift, you could have gained an extra 2 points from the lay eggs action.

10. American Robin – Excellent card. Good play.

11. Your opponent is playing bad cards. The two forest cards are terrible. He almost certainly has the bonus card for cavity nests.

12. End round goal goes to opponent again, even though you had enough ground nests to tie him.

Round 4: I would recommend gaining food and playing the Wood Stork and the whooping crane. That’s +12 points and 2 more bonus cards.
1. Great Egret and whooping crane is fine. You get one less bonus card, but you save an action cube to use in your grassland.

2. The Warbler is correct 0 it’s 7 points instead of the 4 or 5 you get from your grassland. But why on turn 4? Run your grassland again, maybe you somehow end up with an even better bird for your final turn. You cannot compete for the end round goal anyway, he has more eggs than you can hold even with the warbler.

I was wrong about his bonus card. Well, despite all this, you scored 98. That’s a winning score most of the time.

I would have played the stork and the Whooping crane.
Egret + Whooping crane gives you 9 points, +4 for your bonus card, and one more bonus card. And you can run your grassland 3 times.

But, Whooping crane + Wood Stork gives you 8 points + 4 points for your original bonus card, and an extra bonus card. You get one less grassland activation, But your grassland is only worth 4-5 points (depending on whether the falcon succeeds.) The bonus card could be a 7 pointer, and you needed to try to catch up.
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GifusGray
Posts: 10
Joined: 26 May 2024, 10:30

Re: Winning %

Post by GifusGray »

Very helpful advices, thank you!
JohannesTheGreatest wrote: 26 April 2025, 22:27
GifusGray wrote: 24 April 2025, 18:28 Yeah, that would be nice. Thank you in advance.

Here's the links:

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=663557000
As fromer Rank1 Arena Player i would like to give my advice as well to your game (only on the starting hand). I have not looked through the actual game.


There is only one play with your starting hand:

You always keep Painted Whitestart with this 5 starting cards.

Now you have already food production going. The worms are coming in.

You also always keep the black-necked stilt. You always have worms to play it and 2 cards are rlly good. This card is generally rlly good.

Northern Shoveler always goes out. Even if your other 4 cards are worse (dont know if its possible). But this cards sucks. Just never keep it. 95% it is the wrong play.


Than you have ONE real decision for the starting hand:

You either keep 4 cards (only discard northern shoveler) and 1 worm. Or you keep 3 cards (painted whitestart, black necked tilt with the spotted owl) and 1 worm and one mouse.

The first move was correct though. You go in the water for the first move and draw House Finch if you are going first. But you need it only later so dont bother with the food at the start. You also only play it later. Probably in round 2 or something or end of round 1.

Than you Play Painted Whitestart in the forest.

You gain food get yourself a mouse (always possible cause there are 2) and get an extra worm.

You place 2 eggs on your painted whitestart.

You play spotted owl in the forest.

You get food (3)

You play black necked stilt and draw 2 cards.

You get food (3)

You play House Finch or something you have drawn.
Pelgrinfe Falcon would be also good in the egg department in your situation to just draw.

This is a solid start.

You got a really good starting hand. It is hard to loose from this position.

For the rest of the game:

Dont play more than 2 birds in the forrest.
End on 0-1 handcards not more.
Ceaseless
Posts: 1306
Joined: 12 November 2022, 17:06

Re: Winning %

Post by Ceaseless »

FrankJones wrote: 27 April 2025, 03:20
Ceaseless wrote: 27 April 2025, 03:07

I don't follow how you got there. They said "keep 4 cards and 1 food, or 3 cards and 2 food". Where are you reading the 2 cards and 3 food option? Whitestart is obvious as the food powerhouse of the hand, which is backing up Black-Neck Stilt really nicely as a starter option to get cards early. Spotted Owl is card 3 in their book, with the rat as food 2 if they don't go for card 4.

For some reason Spotted Sandpiper is on the line here, but I don't think there's a great case for not taking it as card 4. Whitestart is a 1 food starter, so absolute worst case the dead card gets tossed for an extra food down the line, whether it be rat/worm, or even held on for a later grab. Doubtful the card will be dead though. It meshes with the Whitestart worm flow and the generic 1 food for 5 points is dumb enough, but considering its nest is a round 3 goal and its type means one more pure wetlander grants a 3-point bonus the cards holds too many easily usable traits to disregard.

The real debate to me from the start is if you actually need to grab House Finch turn 1, which everyone else has taken as a given. The card is good, but is it THAT good? No doubt the card is excellent and top of the list of cards to draw, with the consideration of drawing the turn before you expect the opponent to if needed, but I'm not sold on sacrificing my entire first draw or it given how awkward the situation looks for everyone's starting hands with it. The opponent has no fruit with none in the feeder, 2 food and is going second. If they see you spend turn 1 on your worm with 4 cards in hand, are they really going to single draw a House Finch they can't even play yet themselves? It's not like they're expecting you to single draw it after declining to turn 1, and so if they want it why not play a bird in the wetland and get things set up first? Normally they'd get to see you build up your wetland, allowing them time to decide if they want to draw it the turn before they think you will. Black-Necked as your first wetland play of the game gives them much less to forsee, their only hint being your double worm turn 2 play, which could happen for several reasons. Had I known at the time they had a Hummingbird for their lead play into the Grassland I might have reconsidered those odds, though no way to know until their own first turn had passed what their intentions are. So, there's a real chance I'd get greedy and hope to snatch it under my regular drawing schedule before they realize it rather than burning a full turn for it.
Dude, I am lost.

Is the house finch THAT good? Probably not. Obviously the most precious resource in this game is action cubes. I HATE drawing ONE card when I have a playable water bird.

My confusion was, you said the decision was to keep 4 card and one food or 3 cads and 2 food.

But you did not mention the spotted sandpiper.

You said the whitestart and the stilt are obvious keepers - no objection here.

So then, what is the other definite keeper that made you say the options are to keep 4 cards or 3? The spotted sandpiper?

My apologies if I am being obtuse here. I wasn't clear on how you went from "2 definite keeps and maybe 3" to "Now the only decision is whether to keep 4 cards or 3".

Again, Apologies if I am misunderstanding what you said.
I just told you in my own post what card reads to be on the line. This was through process of elimination between them naming who the first 2 keeps were (the definite keeps) and them naming who keep #3 was when they offered the chance of only keeping 3 cards. At that point the only 2 cards left is the card they already said to pretty much never keep and one other, which by default can only be card #4. Definite keep reads to be cards they immediately took a liking to in their opening hand as the best choices, not the only cards they were going to end up choosing.
JohannesTheGreatest wrote: 26 April 2025, 22:27
GifusGray wrote: 24 April 2025, 18:28 Yeah, that would be nice. Thank you in advance.

Here's the links:

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=663557000
You either keep 4 cards (only discard northern shoveler) and 1 worm. Or you keep 3 cards (painted whitestart, black necked tilt with the spotted owl) and 1 worm and one mouse.
As stated in their quote, if they keep 3 cards, Spotted Owl is keep #3. It's a tier below the "definite keep" cards, but still something clearly better than another food after thinking about it.

Btw, I'm not the one who made the original quote about obvious keepers, I'm just reading what they said that should already cover it. Hence my disagreeing with both of you about how clear the immediate House Finch draw was, as well as my disagreement with them that card #4 was on the line (or even that it would be the Sandpiper, the Spotted Owl has less generic opening value and forest bird #2 is pretty easy to get and use, but I'd still keep it because it's generically worth it and the hand can easily transform it into food if it didn't work out).
FrankJones
Posts: 2449
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Winning %

Post by FrankJones »

Ceaseless wrote: 27 April 2025, 03:07

I don't follow how you got there. They said "keep 4 cards and 1 food, or 3 cards and 2 food". Where are you reading the 2 cards and 3 food option? Whitestart is obvious as the food powerhouse of the hand, which is backing up Black-Neck Stilt really nicely as a starter option to get cards early. Spotted Owl is card 3 in their book, with the rat as food 2 if they don't go for card 4.

My confusion stemmed from the fact that Johannes said to keep the Painted whitestart and the Stilt and maybe the owl. Johannes did not mention the spotted sandpiper at all.

Then jumped to saying, "So, we're either keeping 3 cards or 4".

I understand now that Johannes was saying to keep the sandpiper and the stilt and the whitestart and maybe the owl, but that wasn't what was written, hence my confusion.
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GifusGray
Posts: 10
Joined: 26 May 2024, 10:30

Re: Winning %

Post by GifusGray »

So good players have the skills to pick the right birds. Yes, I know I fed him with hummingbird. But still losing to bonus cards starts to f''' me up really hard. It's time to admit that I have not enough rainman in me to keep going.

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=665334898

This game just f'''s me!

Arena-mode is done.
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