Suggestion for turn-based tournaments

[Markelix]

Even if I'm only here for 1 month I see one problem on 3 of my 4 turn-based tournaments I participate(d).

This is 1 or even 2 slow players at the table, who play e.g. only one turn per day on their evening (and are mostly out of time).
As the time per round is automatically set on [time for each player] x [number of players], in that case the games end long time before really finished and the player with the most time on the clock wins, even if (s)he played bad.
And it makes no sense to skip the turns of the "slow" players, cause nearly everybody wants to finish the game normally and not in that way.

So my suggestion is, that it should be possible to set the max time for each round manually higher than [time for each player] x [number of players].

For example on a tournament with 4 players on each table and 5 days of time per player, I would like to set the max time of each round at 40 days (instead of 20) so the other 3 on the table can "bear" the one slow player and despite it finish the game.

^^ In addition the option would be nice, that, if the games end despite it un-finished, that the players are ranked by their actual progress (points) and not by their time left - as long as they're not over time, to prevent, that somebody intentionally goes over time when (s)he is in front.


[sorry for my poor English]

[nik592]

Has already been suggested: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=153554. Please vote for it.

^^ In addition the option would be nice, that, if the games end despite it un-finished, that the players are ranked by their actual progress (points) and not by their time left - as long as they're not over time, to prevent, that somebody intentionally goes over time when (s)he is in front.

This doesn't work for most games, as they have a majority of points awarded at the end of the game for various goals - so the score in the middle of the game can be entirely different than the score at the end. Additionally, if a player went over time intentionally to delay the game because they were winning, they would most likely lose the game because other players would probably have more time remaining.

Awarding places based on time left isn't a perfect system either, but awarding based on current points is probably worse in many cases.

[Markelix]

Maybe your point is right. I myself was not entirely sure about that point.
(edit: I wrote this other suggestion, while beeing frustrated about a Catan-tournament... one of the few games where you get yours points step by step during the game)

But at the end this point don't affects my entire suggestion about the possibility to set game time limits above the [number of player] x [time per player] calculation.
It's just very annoying, that the majority of the tournament-games ends with time-rating. (And btw. very bad for the player after the slow one in some cases. In one of the games regarding me, the slow player always made her turns between 1 and 2 hours after I go usually to bed, so my time ran about between 6 and 7 hours every turn.

[nik592]

As I said:

Has already been suggested: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=153554. Please vote for it.

[Markelix]

thank you, done.

[BananaHarambe]

My suggestion for making tournaments is to choose game duration being mindful of how much time each player has rather than focus on game duration if that makes any sense. I want the majority of my games in my tournaments to complete naturally without skips. I would strongly prefer that the option to skip is rarely offered in a 3+ player game to avoid poor sportsmanship and further "time wasting" caused by skipped games. I would much prefer a game to take too long, but complete properly than to be skipped early as long as I feel players are being reasonable with their pacing.

Someone will always have the clock on them longer than the other players, that's how it works with asynchronous gaming and needs to be accounted for. For example I host a 3p tournament for a game that usually takes 7-8 days to complete in 3p casual play or arena with 1 to 3 move per day timing. I COULD set the maximum game duration to 10 days and trust that it's enough time to finish games, but that's not a complete picture.

When I look at thinking time for players in recent games it's always uneven. For example, in most of those 7-8 day games one player has a thinking time of 4 days. This means that they would time out if I used 10 day games because they would only have 3.33 thinking days of time. Therefore I intentionally increase the game duration to 15 days so everyone has 5 days thinking time. This seems to be enough for the vast majority of players and players can always be generous and continue playing once time has run out to be a good sport. The number of games affected by bad skips should be very low and even if players are skipped I can honestly tell them they were too slow for the majority of players and that it's on them, not the settings.

The majority of players for most simple tournament games on BGA have access to a computer or smartphone throughout the day and can reliably make 3-4 moves per 24 hours during their ~16 waking hours. Players that can only access BGA during only 1 part of the day and struggle to ever make more than 2 moves per day should not be joining most tournaments because their pacing is too slow for other players. I have found a happy middle ground to be accommodating in tournaments.

[wdspider]

Honestly, I don't understand why Tournament games don't add time back to the clock like regular turn based games. Adding time back to the clock would solve most of these issues.

[BananaHarambe]

Honestly, I don't understand why Tournament games don't add time back to the clock like regular turn based games. Adding time back to the clock would solve most of these issues.

It has to do with BGA wanting tournaments to have defined schedules, which is arguably a defining feature of a tournament, so each tournament game needs a maximum game duration and matches can be scheduled using the schedule match dates feature.

Tournaments are the only way on BGA to sign up for multiple games in advance and knowing how many days to expect for a tournament is valuable information for anyone signing up. Players signing up for multiple tournaments would struggle to choose a reasonable tournament count if game duration were obscured.

All tournament options are available with this in mind. Since game duration should be fixed, it is reasonable to used fixed time for each player for simplicity. If games had added time, but games ended at maximum game duration without a player timing out that would be even more confusing.

What's most tough about fixed time in tournaments is that BGA players don't have experience with this kind of time management outside of tournaments so newcomers to tournaments will often misjudge how much time they actually require since it's never been an issue for them playing "1 move per day". Some players many not realize how slow they actually play until the clock is on them 20 hours a day with no added increment.

[nik592]

Honestly, I don't understand why Tournament games don't add time back to the clock like regular turn based games. Adding time back to the clock would solve most of these issues.

It has to do with BGA wanting tournaments to have defined schedules, which is arguably a defining feature of a tournament, so each tournament game needs a maximum game duration and matches can be scheduled using the schedule match dates feature.

This could be at the choice of the creator though - fixed length tournament or variable length tournament.

[wdspider]

Honestly, I don't understand why Tournament games don't add time back to the clock like regular turn based games. Adding time back to the clock would solve most of these issues.

It has to do with BGA wanting tournaments to have defined schedules, which is arguably a defining feature of a tournament, so each tournament game needs a maximum game duration and matches can be scheduled using the schedule match dates feature.

This could be at the choice of the creator though - fixed length tournament or variable length tournament.

You could also do it so that the game still has a fixed length even if ppl get time back on their clock for taking a turn. When the fixed length of time is up, you score the game as it would typically be during its “ending state”.

Admittedly, you would still have people run out of time like you do for regular turned based games; however, it would be fewer occasions. Plus, you would have the added bonus of scoring the game as if it reached its end after a set amount of time, since it would be an improvement over denoting the person with the most thinking time left as the winner.