Abuse of fast turn based option

[Ken Corbin]

I have run into a player who opens games with a 24 move/day turn based option with a very odd sleep range. Players who accept the game do not realize what is happening and inevitably run out of time, at which point they are kicked out. It can be argued that they are doing nothing unethical, just taking advantage of a quirk in the BGA UI. But it is probably leaving a lot of opponents pissed off at the BGA platform, and that got me wondering if something should be done to close that potential loophole. Does anyone really use the fast turn based options for real? It seems like they all invite this kind of potential abuse.

[QnJa]

Are you sure it's odd for them? There are players all over the world. Maybe they just live in a different time zone or have a different sleep schedule. I use the 24/day option all the time. I enjoy playing quick games and not making only one or two moves per day.

[Shivaware]

I have run into a player who opens games with a 24 move/day turn based option with a very odd sleep range. Players who accept the game do not realize what is happening and inevitably run out of time, at which point they are kicked out. It can be argued that they are doing nothing unethical, just taking advantage of a quirk in the BGA UI. But it is probably leaving a lot of opponents pissed off at the BGA platform, and that got me wondering if something should be done to close that potential loophole. Does anyone really use the fast turn based options for real? It seems like they all invite this kind of potential abuse.

Part of me wants to hear more from the perspective of one of the people that obliviously join games with inappropriate playing hours, but it would probably be best if BGA just tried to prevent it from happening. Please consider voting for https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=57379

[mikkashar]

Fast turn based games are reasonable for people who know what they're signing up for.

They mix terribly with the "flexible" option for game speed on the new game pages, whether for the arena or for automatic matches, as that option allows the entire range of turn-based speeds. The old lobby allows setting a specific range of acceptable speeds and playing hours. "Flexible" turn-base speed on the new game pages will cheerfully drop someone with the slider on one move per day into a 24 moves per day game, with no input on their playing hours. (That happened to me with an arena game. I'll never set game speed to flexible again.) Playing hours don't even appear as an option unless one has picked a fast turn based speed as the base choice.

At the very least, "flexible" for turn-based game speeds should be split into slow and fast. (I've taken a casual look for bugs or suggestions requesting that, and haven't turned anything up, but should look more carefully before filing a request.)

[Ken Corbin]

Thanks for the responses....

The player in question lives in the USA, which narrows the time zone choices. The active range they select would be 6PM to 6AM on the east coast, 3PM to 3AM on the west. The smoking gun is to go through their game history which shows that they almost never loose. Sometimes they win fairly, sometimes they win by kicking out an opponent who is out of time. But they almost always win.

I accept that there are people who prefer the fast turn based options. Adding a warning for players accepting a fast turn based game which covers a large portion very late night hours in their time zone sounds like a good idea. I added my vote to that one.

I also opened my own suggested change at https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=169035 recommending that intentionally trying to force another player to run out of clock time should be added to list of forbidden behaviors. Proving intent is and should be a high bar, but think this it is pretty obvious in this case.

[Ceaseless]

Thanks for the responses....

The player in question lives in the USA, which narrows the time zone choices. The active range they select would be 6PM to 6AM on the east coast, 3PM to 3AM on the west. The smoking gun is to go through their game history which shows that they almost never loose. Sometimes they win fairly, sometimes they win by kicking out an opponent who is out of time. But they almost always win.

I accept that there are people who prefer the fast turn based options. Adding a warning for players accepting a fast turn based game which covers a large portion very late night hours in their time zone sounds like a good idea. I added my vote to that one.

I also opened my own suggested change at https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=169035 recommending that intentionally trying to force another player to run out of clock time should be added to list of forbidden behaviors. Proving intent is and should be a high bar, but think this it is pretty obvious in this case.

How is them consistently winning a smoking gun?

[Ken Corbin]

Thanks for the responses....

The player in question lives in the USA, which narrows the time zone choices. The active range they select would be 6PM to 6AM on the east coast, 3PM to 3AM on the west. The smoking gun is to go through their game history which shows that they almost never loose. Sometimes they win fairly, sometimes they win by kicking out an opponent who is out of time. But they almost always win.

I accept that there are people who prefer the fast turn based options. Adding a warning for players accepting a fast turn based game which covers a large portion very late night hours in their time zone sounds like a good idea. I added my vote to that one.

I also opened my own suggested change at https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=169035 recommending that intentionally trying to force another player to run out of clock time should be added to list of forbidden behaviors. Proving intent is and should be a high bar, but think this it is pretty obvious in this case.

How is them consistently winning a smoking gun?

If you look at the games they "win", half the time there opponent was way ahead on points but was ejected for running out of time.

This isn't obvious from just looking at the game history which simply shows the game as abandoned. But if you replay the game and fast forward to the end status, it clearly shows up.

[Jellby]

How is this different from playing against beginners who make rookie mistakes?

[Ken Corbin]

How is this different from playing against beginners who make rookie mistakes?

Fair question. Well, rookie players playing against experts expect to loose most of the time. And hopefully pick up some experience that will make them better players in the future. They are not likely to feel abused by the process. Players with a lot of experience in a game but who misunderstand the fast turn based game option, who then find themselves loosing to a game when they are way ahead on points are more inclined to feel bitter about the experience.

I had a similar question. This player has found a clever loophole in the rules that let's him win almost every game he plays. Why shouldn't they be allowed to take advantage of that discovery? I would probably agree with that, except that it has the unfortunate side effect of leaving their opponents blaming the BGA system for a bad game experience.

Maybe a better solution would be to acknowledge that fast turn based games are an entirely different animal from regular turn based games. The main play now screen that currently allows you to select between real time games and turn based games should have three different options. Real time games, regular turn base games, and fast turn based games. That would help keep players from accepting fast turn based games that they do not understand.

[Ken Corbin]

Starting wondering how player X is making this work. As others have pointed out, BGA has a global user base. Picking an active time that is the regular sleeping hours in your time zone just means it will be a perfect for someone on the opposite side of the globe. So I did a bit more research into the last 20 or so opponents and found they were all in the western hemisphere or in the central Europe time zone. The selective active zone of 6PM to 6AM on the US east coast would be 11PM to 11AM in central Europe.

Why they are not picking up opponents from Aisa and Australia is a bit of a mystery. Maybe the BGA user base is just low in those time zones, or maybe they are picking games with limited appeal there.