Asteroid Mining Consortium

[schulni]

To answer Frank's question, here is a recent game against Joost I was proud of: https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=680978712

I made a few small mistakes on timing because I play too many games at once (like not drawing cards before doing another action that wasn't urgent) but overall had to play a relatively weak corporation and mediocre starting hand into a winning position against stronger cards.

To chime in on the broader debate, I think 80%+ is the correct number of the winning percentage between a 500ish ELO player and a 700ish ELO player. Joost is better than I am and would win the majority of matchups against me, so I am posting a game I think I played well with the full knowledge that he has outplayed me in other matchups. I think when you start playing TM you think there's a big luck factor, and then when you start playing the top players you realize the luck factor is very small. I end up playing HighlanderMG a lot in the arena, for example, and while I don't always concentrate as well as I could, he's clearly a significantly better player than I am despite a relatively small difference in ELO (say 75ish depending on the day). He beats me 80%+ of the time. I have some bad habits I will need to work on to take the next step.

[RoyalRook]

If money is tempo, what do you think about delaiyng NRA for playing bribed?

The skill gap was large enough for me to do whatever I want, most likely I wouldn't be challenged so econ and heat control with anti grav in hand. I get to have fun 2 from time to time. Although to be fair, that's usually when I get caught and lose a game b/c I go off the main lines. If closer in skill I will probably just max out gen1 NRA, come on if you can see that line I certainly did.

That's funny because I would bet on Pkoo beating you in a bo5

hahaha, of course he would.

@Joost hi man, umm no you take polar over donation as Vitor basically all the time with a back door to natural Thermolist. Donation is ranked 2nd to last in win rate and Vitor needs no cash baby.

@Happy no we don't ever play Phobo unless it's free, mayor is death, I only do it if I decided to donate some elos and play like a noob for fun.

@Frank here me winning over holy trinity of earth cat, restricted+biz net and anti grav with two animals earth office standard tech mass quantum + 7 jov tag boosted by IO WIFE TG under Vitor yesterday: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=688644740
I could have certain played even better, the important thing is that wasn't stressed at all while all the monster cards flying around, b/c I know tempo is on my side. Experience wins.

[Pkoo]

I disagree with Jay on gen1 hacker, I think it's perfectly fine to play. -1 vp on gen 1 is meaningless, but 4 MC swing for 9+ gens creates a tremendous deflation effect on your 2p opponents economy, especially they bought lots cards in the initial draft. Delaying one more gen of media group combo decides games, it's simple as that. Money is tempo and if the game goes on to gen 10 it's all gravy for the hacker. Play hacker then dont buy cards fixes the negatives anyway, and the hacker has the right of way during draft.

If money is tempo, what do you think about delaiyng NRA for playing bribed?

The skill gap was large enough for me to do whatever I want, most likely I wouldn't be challenged so econ and heat control with anti grav in hand. I get to have fun 2 from time to time. Although to be fair, that's usually when I get caught and lose a game b/c I go off the main lines. If closer in skill I will probably just max out gen1 NRA, come on if you can see that line I certainly did.

its true everyone, Rook actually planned out that whole game vs me. Including the landlord fund he lost and the scientist fund he almost lost and would have won me the game in a terrible deck. Truly a master planner!

[FrankJones]

To answer Frank's question, here is a recent game against Joost I was proud of: https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=680978712

I made a few small mistakes on timing because I play too many games at once (like not drawing cards before doing another action that wasn't urgent) but overall had to play a relatively weak corporation and mediocre starting hand into a winning position against stronger cards.

I'll take a look at this game and then the one Rook posted. (I will update this post, hold off on any replies just yet)

My initial thoughts: I'm not sure I am keeping all those cards. Some of them seem marginal at best. That being said, I perceive you to be in a significantly better position at the end of Gen 1. The opponent has weak preludes, you already have 28 TR. Your income is 29 to opponent's 31, but yours is all money versus a lot of metal for the opponent. You have one card draw with another one ready to go in gen 2.

Vesta Shipyard seems very expensive, I'm assuming there is at least one Jovian multiplier in that hand otherwise I don't understand playing that card. I consider nuclear power very weak - did you buy it with the intent to play it, or to just to have it on hand in case of emergency? Maybe with preludes jacking up the early income it's not such a bad card - I find the -2 MC production brutal in games without preludes. I've also thought of Release of Inert gases as a marginal card; the 2 TR does not take away from any of the 42 Available TR the two players are battling over, and often seems to delay more important cards. Adapted Lichen also seems highly marginal with no support yet from the powerful green-tag cards. Would that be a keeper if you did not have the huge asteroid prelude?

Gen 2: Rough draft. Hate draft the Jovian just in case; I had the same thought. The other cards are marginal. I'm not sure I would buy all 3. Your opponent passes. Why play Rover unless a city is imminent? What if Earth Catapult comes along?

Gen 3: Another rough draft. I hate passing Greenhouses, but I also hate getting energy tapped. I am surprised to see Mangrove come back to you. I usually buy it. Isn't it a good end-game card? 3 points, possible tag synergy, usually gains a good placement bonus and ocean adjacency, can be a 4th point if placed next to a city.

Passing you Energy tapping and then playing industrial microbes seems a bit suspect.

If I am not mistaken, GHG factories, Steelworks, and Cartel were the result of random card draws. Seems to me you're just getting better cards? SF memorial is an interesting card. It's 10 dollars for a card and a point. To me that is overvaluing the point or the card or both. Is this at attempt at Builder? With no other building tags?

Gen 5: Interesting. Asteroid and ice asteroid seem strong, and especially tough to give ice asteroid to credicor with titanium.

I don't understand buying Acquired Company and not playing it ?

Gen 6: I am confused. if you held off on Tardigrade and steelworks, don't you have Terraformer and planner?

a Gen 6 Lichen at full cost without an tag synergy; I'm not sure about that one. I assume you're going for Moss - Research Coordination - NRA, but that leaves you very little room to buy anything in the upcoming draft or from the next use of Business Network. Still doable though.

Gen 7. Research, when your opponent already has Mars and Olympus. Trying to fight for scientist? This seems sluggish, I feel as though you have too many cards and are going in a lot of different directions.

Was Cuploa worth it? Dev center cannot be used. Was Symbiotic Worth it? NRA is now delayed one more gen. Capital ! Well, I am officially baffled. You have a city in a great spot with room for four greeneries. Now, Steelworks cannot be used. But, Dev center can. At this point, I assume you are playing the long game?

Gen 8: Open City, with two cities already that have room for 7 greeneries? Opponent puts a greenery next to your city, a 2-point swing, just to gain 4 MC? In gen 8, that surprises me.

Banker makes sense; he likely is about to fund scientist. I'm not sure I understand keeping Release of Inert gases in the starting hand and not using it now that you have media group. Banker could be funded next gen?

Close game, 62-60 after 8 gens. (My game against Corvus was over in Gen 8, 80-68.)

Gen 9.

Earlier you took indentured workers as a first draft pick, and played it without Media group. Now you have a discounted Investment loan and Media group, and pass it for Nuclear Zone. I'm a bit confused by that. Denying him the bonus ocean, I'm guessing? Why not let him draft Nuclear Zone, then play giant ice and temperature raise into the bonus ocean? You got investment loan back. That surprises me. I forget what the other card was but I would have kept investment loan.

Now these extra actions cost you the bonus ocean.

Well, Nuclear zone enabled you to end it. It seems to me that you had the better cards throughout the game, and that your opponent was probably frustrated by having few good cards to work with.

I'm not sure this game helps me understand the high-level complexity people attribute to TFM. I mean, was there any point in this game when you were losing?


I watched it from Joost's perspective also.

The final draft was a bit off, taking hackers and passing Investment loan, then buying hackers? Greenhouses and Interstellar Colony ended up not being played.

Mars University is a great card, but it was difficult to use in this game, a lot of junk cards had to be bought to have discards.

I think there were a lot of errors here by both players, but I'm not 600 Elo, so maybe I'm just not understanding some of these plays.

[Joost1987]

@Joost hi man, umm no you take polar over donation as Vitor basically all the time with a back door to natural Thermolist. Donation is ranked 2nd to last in win rate and Vitor needs no cash baby.

I don't think it is really relevant what statistics from other games say about donation in this particular game. The statement that 'Vitor needs no cash' is another generalization that doesn't seem to apply here. Looking at the cards at hand, there are a lot of cards you want to play immediately. Should you draw something that is somewhat expensive (say: 15 MC of more) from business network, you don't have enough cash to pay for that. On top of that: having access to business network (which is an expensive card draw card itself) means more cards in the early game so a greater need for even more cash.

Polar Industries does practically nothing the first few gens if you don't get the 2 cards. If the 2 cards were a guaranteed: maybe. Otherwise I would not pick it regardless of what statistics from other games might tell you.

[FrankJones]

Surely "donation" is not the second worst prelude? There are some terrible preludes that I would say are not worth 21 MC.

[FrankJones]

Joost's starting hand was kind of garbage, and the first few card draws were nothing useful. I'm actually surprised this game was even close.

[HappyMeaI]

The skill gap was large enough for me to do whatever I want, most likely I wouldn't be challenged so econ and heat control with anti grav in hand. I get to have fun 2 from time to time. Although to be fair, that's usually when I get caught and lose a game b/c I go off the main lines. If closer in skill I will probably just max out gen1 NRA, come on if you can see that line I certainly did.

That's funny because I would bet on Pkoo beating you in a bo5

hahaha, of course he would.

@Joost hi man, umm no you take polar over donation as Vitor basically all the time with a back door to natural Thermolist. Donation is ranked 2nd to last in win rate and Vitor needs no cash baby.

@Happy no we don't ever play Phobo unless it's free, mayor is death, I only do it if I decided to donate some elos and play like a noob for fun.

@Frank here me winning over holy trinity of earth cat, restricted+biz net and anti grav with two animals earth office standard tech mass quantum + 7 jov tag boosted by IO WIFE TG under Vitor yesterday: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=688644740
I could have certain played even better, the important thing is that wasn't stressed at all while all the monster cards flying around, b/c I know tempo is on my side. Experience wins.

Rook post the game against the 700 elo where you lost to UNMI and asked if he wanted to restart at the beginning. That is a great example of out-maneuvering.

[HappyMeaI]

Surely "donation" is not the second worst prelude? There are some terrible preludes that I would say are not worth 21 MC.

Donation is suppose to be the median prelude. Joost is correct that taking Polar being 2nd is a bit of a fumble. You’re quite often rivaled for that card bonus goin 2nd, and I didn’t consider the boost to Algae / Kelp / Moss.

That’s right I said it… Moss is the boss baby!

[schulni]

Joost's starting hand was kind of garbage, and the first few card draws were nothing useful. I'm actually surprised this game was even close.

I would be happy to start with Credicorp, Mars U, Kelp Farming, and a cheap ocean. That's a pretty solid base to work from. Add the card that's the subject of this thread early on, plus viral enhancers, and I would say the cards were mostly on his side early on. My big advantage was early card draw and strong preludes, which are obviously powerful. I didn't feel like my hand had much direction.

You're missing a bit of the sequencing, which I think happens when you can only see one side of the replay at once. I don't think it was Joost's best game, but I do think it took some tricky navigating and baiting him into helping me end that generation was a play I was proud of, anyway.