Asteroid Mining Consortium

[jaymc1130]

Much of the strategy analysis (if we can call it that) for this game seems to revolve around arguing over the value of some of the cards.
In this thread, a debate over how strong AMC is, and whether hackers is worth playing. In another thread, a debate over the moss cards.

Even if we all came to an agreement on which cards were worth what, there would still be high variance with regard to who gets dealt which cards.

To demonstrate the complexity of the game, if it is in fact a high-complexity game, maybe some top players can post games in which they won a game with bad cards by out-maneuvering the opponent.

Kind of a silly ask when I know you’ve seen me play at least a couple Challenge Mode games where I deliberately play bad cards and lines in stream and still win while completing the challenge (like gen 1 Dets, or play only even costing cards, or gen 1 cows, or play all the negative VP cards). It’s clearly a pretty complex game when I can consistently win Challenge Mode games (it’s just really hard to win them against other strong players). Are you challenging me to stream Challenge Mode sessions more often? Cuz I can do dat

I would definitely watch streams of top players, especially with commentary.
Though, I recall watching a stream of a wingspan game by a supposed expert, and there were mistakes everywhere, starting with move 1. The player defended the errors by saying the live stream and commentary distracted him

Oh believe me, chat be a master of distraction tactics, lmao. Not saying anything about this individual, but live streaming be hard yo.

[jaymc1130]

I am super friendly

Being deliberately rude and disrespectful to others (calling people trash) is not a friendly gesture.

[FrankJones]

I'm sure I made some mistakes. It's a lot easier in retrospect to see everything that happened after and question a decision. I would be curious what things you think were the most costly. I am always trying to get better.

Start of gen 6: The milestones are highly contested. Joost needs 5 actions to claim two milestones:
Greenery, greenery, building tag, claim, claim.

You also need 5 actins: dev center, buy card from Business network, use steelworks, claim, claim.

But if you buy the 4th card in the draft, you would only need 4 actions, and you are guaranteed to swipe a milestone on your second turn. It would only cost you 2 MC of wasted money (buy Aquifer pump, then eventually sell if for 1 MC.

[RoyalRook]

I am doing this because I see the difference in meta, and I think my theory is correct and I have advantage over most steam player's close circuit meta. I understand all the steam's meta and improved on it over the years. The only way to settle it is to play, you dodging me and be emotional solves nothing. Just play, stop chatting about it, you know I have your number.

@joost I love loan/donation, but had to stop myself many times b/c of the pure meta. Up to me I loan/donate everytime, but data is data and the data is right on this after many many many tries. In my game for example the loan/donation doesn't help me much, I didn't need the extra cash. But Credicor on Tharsis, I like to think I take loan/donation, but I don't know. One final point before I check in for the night, the 2 heat prod is super strong on gen 1. I believe heat control is everything for top level Heads Up matches. You would see between two top players, black polar be played after gen 3. The two heat and an ocean for Vitor gen0 before picking zero day award is huge, I get to see a card(me personal value a random card 5MC on gen0), too. I don't care much when play with lower ranks, it's whatever maybe take the money to just finish faster it doesn't matter, I will only lose to super AI or jovs anyway.

[jaymc1130]

I am doing this because I see the difference in meta

I’m not talking about anything related to Terraforming mars when it comes to your behavior on this platform (or others). I’m speaking as one friend to another who’d like you to behave yourself and simply not be rude to others (who are also friends) in conversation. That doesn’t strike me as a difficult ask. This is supposed to be a friendly place.

You said you can be a friendly guy.

[FrankJones]

Were we discussing "Loan"? Or "Donation"?

[RoyalRook]

Were we discussing "Loan"? Or "Donation"?

both I treat pretty much the same.

I am doing this because I see the difference in meta

I’m not talking about anything related to Terraforming mars when it comes to your behavior on this platform (or others). I’m speaking as one friend to another who’d like you to behave yourself and simply not be rude to others (who are also friends) in conversation. That doesn’t strike me as a difficult ask. This is supposed to be a friendly place.

You said you can be a friendly guy.

Understood, let's just play, I am good now.

[FrankJones]

How do I estimate my likely true Elo?

I reached 500 for the first time on game 83, hitting 502 Elo.

Since then, I played 48 games, winning 35 and losing 13, and my Elo currently sits at 500.
48 games without changing my Elo would suggest that my current Elo is accurate.
But I still feel as though there was a lot of variance in those games.

Maybe someone can look at my recent game and tell me what I did wrong. For the record, I do not think there was any possibility of winning this game, not against the cards I was up against:


https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=688170204

When your opponent gets 80 points in 44 actions in an 8-gen game, you're not going to win. I thought 68 points in 32 actions in 8 gens was a solid showing, given the cards I had and the cards my opponent had.

[aspirin_]

Gen 2: This is either plantation or ghg. Usually you dont want to pass early plant tags, but ghg isnt too bad since we can develop 3+2 heat prod while paying with minerals.
I wouldve played flooding on ti and played nuke power (you funnily needed exactly 3 energy prod the whole game) into ghg. We cannot just forfeit the whole heat track to him, this also lets us compete on thermalist.
Gen 3: Deepwell is a skip. You passed again with tons of money instead of developing energy and heat. You just drafted Trees!
Gen 4: Soletta is a just bad here, its too late. This is either space elevator or grass. Grass is better for him, while elevator lets us fund an early miner. Since I had developed heat by this time I wouldve taken Grass. Elevator us useless for him.
Gen 5: You dont need great dam. You also had to slow play here to pressure him to gardener. After convoy got you rights, I wouldve fund miner for 8 here, since he has an easy landlord with that much heat and standard tech. You just dropped a pretty naked Noctis to float 4 plants. Thats just an invitation for plant hate.
Convoy - Fund - Workers - Rights - take Heat. Play slow and make him SP for gardener while you can eventually snatch it with noctis and 2 SPs.
Also no need to fund Builder here, safe cash for Gardener.
Gen 6: Flows over Sabo is not good. It basically inflates the cost of Flows by 4 at which point its not really good anymore. Space Hotels does nothing here, you gotta pick immi city as a cheap city and teleport, especially with steel prod.
Gen 7: why do you buy ICS? Its never going to get played. Its a fast game, where do you get the sci tags from? And not buying herbis is a huge mistake too. Why center yourself? Just play Kelp. With immi you had a nice 4 vp city here, instead he gets it with immi.

At the end of the day he had better cards but you made it easier for him than necessary. It def shouldnt have been a 12 point loss. I dont know when he wouldve gotten his third plant tag if you take plantation gen 2, the early NRA is obv quite huge here (not as good as bribed of course), but taking ghg and not playing it, while passing the plant tag is of course wrong.

[Corvus Mortis]

Gen 2: This is either plantation or ghg. Usually you dont want to pass early plant tags, but ghg isnt too bad since we can develop 3+2 heat prod while paying with minerals.
I wouldve played flooding on ti and played nuke power (you funnily needed exactly 3 energy prod the whole game) into ghg. We cannot just forfeit the whole heat track to him, this also lets us compete on thermalist.
Gen 3: Deepwell is a skip. You passed again with tons of money instead of developing energy and heat. You just drafted Trees!
Gen 4: Soletta is a just bad here, its too late. This is either space elevator or grass. Grass is better for him, while elevator lets us fund an early miner. Since I had developed heat by this time I wouldve taken Grass. Elevator us useless for him.
Gen 5: You dont need great dam. You also had to slow play here to pressure him to gardener. After convoy got you rights, I wouldve fund miner for 8 here, since he has an easy landlord with that much heat and standard tech. You just dropped a pretty naked Noctis to float 4 plants. Thats just an invitation for plant hate.
Convoy - Fund - Workers - Rights - take Heat. Play slow and make him SP for gardener while you can eventually snatch it with noctis and 2 SPs.
Also no need to fund Builder here, safe cash for Gardener.
Gen 6: Flows over Sabo is not good. It basically inflates the cost of Flows by 4 at which point its not really good anymore. Space Hotels does nothing here, you gotta pick immi city as a cheap city and teleport, especially with steel prod.
Gen 7: why do you buy ICS? Its never going to get played. Its a fast game, where do you get the sci tags from? And not buying herbis is a huge mistake too. Why center yourself? Just play Kelp. With immi you had a nice 4 vp city here, instead he gets it with immi.

At the end of the day he had better cards but you made it easier for him than necessary. It def shouldnt have been a 12 point loss. I dont know when he wouldve gotten his third plant tag if you take plantation gen 2, the early NRA is obv quite huge here (not as good as bribed of course), but taking ghg and not playing it, while passing the plant tag is of course wrong.

Crazily, I prefer Phobolog in the opener. Same cards + Vesta + Colonizer. Potentially swap Io Research Outpost for Research Network, but could go either way. Idea of Convoy on cards (or titanium if we lose cards) into Vesta + Titanium Mine. This works out very well for us when Asteroid Mining comes around gen 2. Regardless, gen 2 I would take and play Asteroid Mining even as Credicor here. Opens up Jovians as a potential scoring line, rewarded big time when GC and TG come to us later (or, if opponent cuts GC, whatever better card he took over it). I agree with the rest of aspirin's comments as the game played out.