Max Score w/o Feeding?

[fifthnephi]

Here's an idea:

What do you think the max score possible is WITHOUT opponents feeding you cards, food, or eggs?

Here are the rules:
- No opponent (You won't receive cards, food, or eggs from an opponent. Still okay to play/use feeding birds yourself)
- Stacked deck (You choose which birds you draw to your hand + Decide what Bonus Cards you draw)
- Stacked birdfeeder (You choose which food is available in the birdfeeder)
- Arena birds only (No Ravens, Gull, Killdeer, or Wood Duck)

For the sake of the experiment:
- Assume you win all end of round goals - so 22 points automatically!
- Assume predatory birds with dice roll hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of a roll: 1 (dice outside feeder) = .167 (points), 2 = .306, 3 = .421, 4 = .518
- Assume predatory birds with tucking hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of the tuck: <50cm = .57 points, <75cm = .69, <100cm = .79

Post your sequence of 26 moves and total score. Let me know if you have any questions

[Jellby]

- Assume you win all end of round goals - so 22 points automatically!

Assume green board then

[FrankJones]

I've done this exercise with the European expansion... but not with just the base game.

But, I do recall scoring 145 in the base game, without the 22 points for EOR goals.

I'm sure much higher is possible, but without some of the good birds in the EE, it just does not seem like a fun exercise.

If anyone wants to try it with EE (Or EE + Oceania), I have a pretty good one. More than 500 with no help.

[fifthnephi]

I've done this exercise with the European expansion... but not with just the base game.

But, I do recall scoring 145 in the base game, without the 22 points for EOR goals.

I'm sure much higher is possible, but without some of the good birds in the EE, it just does not seem like a fun exercise.

If anyone wants to try it with EE (Or EE + Oceania), I have a pretty good one. More than 500 with no help.

That's awesome! My goal here is to gain insight into the strongest birds for Arena mode on BGA. I know it's not a perfect experiment especially since it will favor birds that feed the opponent cards and food, but it would be cool to see the strongest themes in strategies.

[Ceaseless]

I've done this exercise with the European expansion... but not with just the base game.

But, I do recall scoring 145 in the base game, without the 22 points for EOR goals.

I'm sure much higher is possible, but without some of the good birds in the EE, it just does not seem like a fun exercise.

If anyone wants to try it with EE (Or EE + Oceania), I have a pretty good one. More than 500 with no help.

That's awesome! My goal here is to gain insight into the strongest birds for Arena mode on BGA. I know it's not a perfect experiment especially since it will favor birds that feed the opponent cards and food, but it would be cool to see the strongest themes in strategies.

Not to mention draw birds being tutors, bonus birds being wildly stronger, and being able to have an ETB grab 5 invertebrate seems pretty brutal too.

[FrankJones]

Here's an idea:

What do you think the max score possible is WITHOUT opponents feeding you cards, food, or eggs?

Here are the rules:
- No opponent (You won't receive cards, food, or eggs from an opponent. Still okay to play/use feeding birds yourself)
- Stacked deck (You choose which birds you draw to your hand + Decide what Bonus Cards you draw)
- Stacked birdfeeder (You choose which food is available in the birdfeeder)
- Arena birds only (No Ravens, Gull, Killdeer, or Wood Duck)

For the sake of the experiment:
- Assume you win all end of round goals - so 22 points automatically!
- Assume predatory birds with dice roll hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of a roll: 1 (dice outside feeder) = .167 (points), 2 = .306, 3 = .421, 4 = .518
- Assume predatory birds with tucking hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of the tuck: <50cm = .57 points, <75cm = .69, <100cm = .79

Post your sequence of 26 moves and total score. Let me know if you have any questions

Well, we aren't goi to get a high theoretical score using predators without expansions, that's for sure.

I'll go with the setup I had in the game I scored 145.
Canada Goose
Raven
Mockingbird
Catbird
Sandhill Crane

All in the grassland, alternating between duplicating the raven ability when egg space starts getting full, and duplicating the Goose and the Crane abilities when there is enough egg space to do so.

Without any of the high-powered tuck birds from the expansions, and without The predators which "could" hypothetically catch 5 fish per turn, it's not easy to set up a crazy scoring engine.

Also, I am now recalling that this exercise has been done before, many years ago, on BGG, before the expansions. I cannot recall whether there were helper players allowed. I am recalling a score over 200 though, which may or may not be possible with that grassland engine I described above.

[Ceaseless]

Here's an idea:

What do you think the max score possible is WITHOUT opponents feeding you cards, food, or eggs?

Here are the rules:
- No opponent (You won't receive cards, food, or eggs from an opponent. Still okay to play/use feeding birds yourself)
- Stacked deck (You choose which birds you draw to your hand + Decide what Bonus Cards you draw)
- Stacked birdfeeder (You choose which food is available in the birdfeeder)
- Arena birds only (No Ravens, Gull, Killdeer, or Wood Duck)

For the sake of the experiment:
- Assume you win all end of round goals - so 22 points automatically!
- Assume predatory birds with dice roll hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of a roll: 1 (dice outside feeder) = .167 (points), 2 = .306, 3 = .421, 4 = .518
- Assume predatory birds with tucking hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of the tuck: <50cm = .57 points, <75cm = .69, <100cm = .79

Post your sequence of 26 moves and total score. Let me know if you have any questions

Well, we aren't goi to get a high theoretical score using predators without expansions, that's for sure.

I'll go with the setup I had in the game I scored 145.
Canada Goose
Raven
Mockingbird
Catbird
Sandhill Crane

All in the grassland, alternating between duplicating the raven ability when egg space starts getting full, and duplicating the Goose and the Crane abilities when there is enough egg space to do so.

Without any of the high-powered tuck birds from the expansions, and without The predators which "could" hypothetically catch 5 fish per turn, it's not easy to set up a crazy scoring engine.

Also, I am now recalling that this exercise has been done before, many years ago, on BGG, before the expansions. I cannot recall whether there were helper players allowed. I am recalling a score over 200 though, which may or may not be possible with that grassland engine I described above.

Wasn't it no ravens? I'd expect something absurd if you go down the wilds route though, with the helper birds basically being better versions of crows. Find a wild and a point filter of choice. A few ETB abusers for the forest and Wetland to help get cards/food and naturally bonus ETBs should surely get somewhere.

[FrankJones]

Oh, right. No ravens.

Well, again, thinking back to that years-old thread on BGG, I seem to recall one person saying something like, "I scored over 200, interestingly enough without a raven or a killdeer".

[Andrei3009]

Here's an idea:

What do you think the max score possible is WITHOUT opponents feeding you cards, food, or eggs?

Here are the rules:
- No opponent (You won't receive cards, food, or eggs from an opponent. Still okay to play/use feeding birds yourself)
- Stacked deck (You choose which birds you draw to your hand + Decide what Bonus Cards you draw)
- Stacked birdfeeder (You choose which food is available in the birdfeeder)
- Arena birds only (No Ravens, Gull, Killdeer, or Wood Duck)

For the sake of the experiment:
- Assume you win all end of round goals - so 22 points automatically!
- Assume predatory birds with dice roll hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of a roll: 1 (dice outside feeder) = .167 (points), 2 = .306, 3 = .421, 4 = .518
- Assume predatory birds with tucking hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of the tuck: <50cm = .57 points, <75cm = .69, <100cm = .79

Post your sequence of 26 moves and total score. Let me know if you have any questions

It's an interesting task, I'll think about it at my leisure. I want to ask you a few questions about the rules: can we assume that the opponents never take food from the birdfeeder and that, on the contrary, I get perfect birdfeeder every time and perfect bonus cards?

[FrankJones]

Here's an idea:

What do you think the max score possible is WITHOUT opponents feeding you cards, food, or eggs?

Here are the rules:
- No opponent (You won't receive cards, food, or eggs from an opponent. Still okay to play/use feeding birds yourself)
- Stacked deck (You choose which birds you draw to your hand + Decide what Bonus Cards you draw)
- Stacked birdfeeder (You choose which food is available in the birdfeeder)
- Arena birds only (No Ravens, Gull, Killdeer, or Wood Duck)

For the sake of the experiment:
- Assume you win all end of round goals - so 22 points automatically!
- Assume predatory birds with dice roll hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of a roll: 1 (dice outside feeder) = .167 (points), 2 = .306, 3 = .421, 4 = .518
- Assume predatory birds with tucking hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of the tuck: <50cm = .57 points, <75cm = .69, <100cm = .79

Post your sequence of 26 moves and total score. Let me know if you have any questions

It's an interesting task, I'll think about it at my leisure. I want to ask you a few questions about the rules: can we assume that the opponents never take food from the birdfeeder and that, on the contrary, I get perfect birdfeeder every time and perfect bonus cards?

I think so. The premise, I think, is "rigged game", just without 4 helper players giving you stuff, as had been the case with similar exercises I've seen for this game.

The OP already said dice rolls always succeed for predators, so:

1) When you gain food, just take exactly which foods you need,
2) When you gain cards 9Birds or bonus cards) just draw them from the deck as though the entire deck were face-up and you can pick whatever you want.