Max Score w/o Feeding?

[fifthnephi]

Here's an idea:

What do you think the max score possible is WITHOUT opponents feeding you cards, food, or eggs?

Here are the rules:
- No opponent (You won't receive cards, food, or eggs from an opponent. Still okay to play/use feeding birds yourself)
- Stacked deck (You choose which birds you draw to your hand + Decide what Bonus Cards you draw)
- Stacked birdfeeder (You choose which food is available in the birdfeeder)
- Arena birds only (No Ravens, Gull, Killdeer, or Wood Duck)

For the sake of the experiment:
- Assume you win all end of round goals - so 22 points automatically!
- Assume predatory birds with dice roll hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of a roll: 1 (dice outside feeder) = .167 (points), 2 = .306, 3 = .421, 4 = .518
- Assume predatory birds with tucking hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of the tuck: <50cm = .57 points, <75cm = .69, <100cm = .79

Post your sequence of 26 moves and total score. Let me know if you have any questions

It's an interesting task, I'll think about it at my leisure. I want to ask you a few questions about the rules: can we assume that the opponents never take food from the birdfeeder and that, on the contrary, I get perfect birdfeeder every time and perfect bonus cards?

Yes and Yes!

[fifthnephi]

Here's my first attempt at the challenge with 167 points:

44 Bonus Cards
22 End of Round Bonus
55 Birds
23 Eggs
23 Tucks

FORMAT:
(Move #). (Move) <> Cards in hand | Eggs on Birds / Egg spots available | Food

0. Start with 1 food, Anna's hummingbird, Ruby-throated hummingbird, Wilson's snipe, and Spotted Sandpiper <> 4 | 0/0 | 1
1. Play Anna's humingbird in Grassland <> 3 | 0/2 | 0
2. 2x eggs, 1x food <> 3 | 2/2 | 1
3. Play Ruby-throated hummingbird in Grassland <> 2 | 1/4 | 0
4. 3x eggs, 2x food <> 2 | 4/4 | 2
5 + 6. Play Wilson's Snipe and Spotted Sandpiper <> 0 | 3/8 | 0
7. 3x eggs, 2x food <> 0 | 6/8 | 2
8. Draw cards <> 4 | 6/8 | 2
9 + 10. Play Barn Swallow + Purple Martin in Grasslands <> 2 | 3/14 | 0
11. 4x eggs, 3x tucks, 2x food <> 2 | 7/14 | 2
12. Play violet-green swallow in Grasslands <> 1 | 5/17 | 0
13 + 14. Draw Cards twice <> 9 | 5/17 | 0
15. 4x eggs, 3x tucks, 2x food <> 9 | 9/17 | 2
16. Play Cassin's Finch in Forest <> 8 | 9/20 | 0
17. 4x eggs, 3x tucks, 2x food <> 8 | 13/20 | 2
18. 4x eggs, 3x tucks, 2x food <> 8 | 17/20 | 4
19. Play House Wren + Bell's Vireo in Forest <> 6 | 15/27 | 1
20. 4x eggs, 3x tucks, 2x food <> 6 | 19/27 | 3
21. Play Red-Eyed Vireo + Spotted Owl in Forest <> 4 | 15/30 | 0
22. 4x eggs, 3x tucks, 2x food <> 4 | 19/30 | 2
23. 4x eggs, 3x tucks, 2x food <> 4 | 23/30 | 4
24. 4x eggs, 3x tucks, 2x food <> 4 | 27/30 | 6
25. Play Atlantic Puffin <> 3 | 25/30 | 3
26. Play Whooping Crane <> 2 | 23/30 | 0

5 Bonus cards = Food Web Expert (14 points), Historian (8), Ecologist (8), Bowl nests (7), Cavity nests (7)

I know this can be beat. Who's up for the challenge?

[FrankJones]

Some variation of the grassland combo of Raven / mockingbird / catbird / sandhill Crane / Canada goose can score more than 165. I haven't experienced with it.

But, before anyone tried to reinvent the wheel:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/214698 ... you/page/2

I think someone scored 208 here without help from any opponent resource-giving actions.

[kostinen]

Thanks for this very interesting challenge!

After several attempts, I just finished a game with 174 points using the rules described.

I'm going to share my play sequence, but first, I want to talk about some principles I tried to apply.
- Social birds are very powerful since we have no counterpart for activating their power.
- I focused my strategy on a powerful grassland, as source of food and points.
- It was then necessary to maximize the number of moves played in the grassland, while placing enough birds to ensure there was enough space for eggs.
- This previous point involves drawing birds. And that's why the birds which allow me to immediately draw cards (without playing in the wetland), were very useful to me.

Here is the game (thanks fifthnephi for the format ^^ )

You can see the final view on this link : https://ibb.co/VcZdSq50

35 Bonus Cards
22 End of Round Bonus
51 Birds
45 Eggs
21 Tucks

FORMAT:
(Move #). (Move) <> Cards in hand | Eggs on Birds / Egg spots available | Food

0. Start with 1 food, Anna's hummingbird, Purple Martin, Nothern Flicker, and American Oystercatcher <> 4 | 0/0 | 1
1. Play Nothern Flicker in Forest <> 3 | 0/4 | 5
2. Play Purple Martin in Grassland <> 2 | 0/7 | 4
3. 2x eggs, 1x tuck <> 2 | 2/7 | 4
4. Play Anna's hummingbird in Grassland <> 1 | 1/9 | 3
5. Play American Oystercatcher in Wetland <> 2 | 1/11 | 1
6. Play Ruby-throated Hummingbird in Grassland <> 1 | 0/13 | 0
7. 3x eggs, 1x tuck, 2x food <> 1 | 3/13 | 2
8. Play Western Meadowlark in Grassland <> 0 | 1/17 | 0
9. Draw 1+1 cards <> 2 | 0/17 | 0
10. 6x eggs, 1x tuck, 2x food <> 2 | 6/17 | 2
11. Play House Finch in Grassland <> 1 | 4/23 | 0
12. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 1 | 10/23 | 2
13. Play Brant Goose in Wetland <> 3 | 9/25 | 0
14. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 3 | 15/25 | 2
15. Play Northern House Wren + Carolina Wren in Forest <> 3 | 13/35 | 0
16. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 3 | 19/35 | 2
17. Play Black-necked Stilt in Wetland <> 4 | 18/37 | 0
18. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 4 | 24/37 | 2
19. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 4 | 30/37 | 4
20. Play Ruby-crowned Kinglet + Bell's Vireo in Forest <> 2 | 26/42 | 1
21. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 2 | 32/42 | 3
22. Play Wood Stork in Wetland <> 1 | 30/44 | 0
23. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 1 | 36/44 | 2
24. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 1 | 42/44 | 4
25. Play Atlantic Puffin in Wetland <> 0 | 40/45 | 1
26. 5x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 0 | 45/45 | 3

4 Bonus cards = Food Web Expert (10 points), Ecologist (10), Omnivore expert (8), Cavity nests (7)

I hope I didn't do any mistake!

The 3 foods remaining at the end is a bit strange, but I think i'm done with this for now. Feel free to take my game and improve it

[fifthnephi]

Thanks for this very interesting challenge!

After several attempts, I just finished a game with 174 points using the rules described.

I'm going to share my play sequence, but first, I want to talk about some principles I tried to apply.
- Social birds are very powerful since we have no counterpart for activating their power.
- I focused my strategy on a powerful grassland, as source of food and points.
- It was then necessary to maximize the number of moves played in the grassland, while placing enough birds to ensure there was enough space for eggs.
- This previous point involves drawing birds. And that's why the birds which allow me to immediately draw cards (without playing in the wetland), were very useful to me.

Here is the game (thanks fifthnephi for the format ^^ )

You can see the final view on this link : https://ibb.co/VcZdSq50

35 Bonus Cards
22 End of Round Bonus
51 Birds
45 Eggs
21 Tucks

FORMAT:
(Move #). (Move) <> Cards in hand | Eggs on Birds / Egg spots available | Food

0. Start with 1 food, Anna's hummingbird, Purple Martin, Nothern Flicker, and American Oystercatcher <> 4 | 0/0 | 1
1. Play Nothern Flicker in Forest <> 3 | 0/4 | 5
2. Play Purple Martin in Grassland <> 2 | 0/7 | 4
3. 2x eggs, 1x tuck <> 2 | 2/7 | 4
4. Play Anna's hummingbird in Grassland <> 1 | 1/9 | 3
5. Play American Oystercatcher in Wetland <> 2 | 1/11 | 1
6. Play Ruby-throated Hummingbird in Grassland <> 1 | 0/13 | 0
7. 3x eggs, 1x tuck, 2x food <> 1 | 3/13 | 2
8. Play Western Meadowlark in Grassland <> 0 | 1/17 | 0
9. Draw 1+1 cards <> 2 | 0/17 | 0
10. 6x eggs, 1x tuck, 2x food <> 2 | 6/17 | 2
11. Play House Finch in Grassland <> 1 | 4/23 | 0
12. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 1 | 10/23 | 2
13. Play Brant Goose in Wetland <> 3 | 9/25 | 0
14. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 3 | 15/25 | 2
15. Play Northern House Wren + Carolina Wren in Forest <> 3 | 13/35 | 0
16. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 3 | 19/35 | 2
17. Play Black-necked Stilt in Wetland <> 4 | 18/37 | 0
18. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 4 | 24/37 | 2
19. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 4 | 30/37 | 4
20. Play Ruby-crowned Kinglet + Bell's Vireo in Forest <> 2 | 26/42 | 1
21. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 2 | 32/42 | 3
22. Play Wood Stork in Wetland <> 1 | 30/44 | 0
23. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 1 | 36/44 | 2
24. 6x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 1 | 42/44 | 4
25. Play Atlantic Puffin in Wetland <> 0 | 40/45 | 1
26. 5x eggs, 2x tuck, 2x food <> 0 | 45/45 | 3

4 Bonus cards = Food Web Expert (10 points), Ecologist (10), Omnivore expert (8), Cavity nests (7)

I hope I didn't do any mistake!

The 3 foods remaining at the end is a bit strange, but I think i'm done with this for now. Feel free to take my game and improve it

Nice one!! Always satisfying to fill up the entire board with birds haha. I think the Flicker is key and I will try incorporating him into my game.

[fifthnephi]

Some variation of the grassland combo of Raven / mockingbird / catbird / sandhill Crane / Canada goose can score more than 165. I haven't experienced with it.

But, before anyone tried to reinvent the wheel:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/214698 ... you/page/2

I think someone scored 208 here without help from any opponent resource-giving actions.

I feel like this strategy relied heavily on the Gull, which we're excluding from this experiment. Here is the 208 game: https://boardgamegeek.com/image/6081140

[kostinen]

This weekend I achieved a fantastic result completely unexpectedly.

I was trying to create the best possible game with the following "constraint": I wasn't allowed to collect food from the forest, nor eggs from the grassland.
The two remaining actions was then :
- Play a bird
- Play in the wetland

Here's the game in question. My previous best score of 174 (based on a powerful grassland) was completely smashed!

--------------

FORMAT:
(Move #). (Move) <> Cards in hand | Eggs on Birds / Egg spots available | Food

Note : "Wetland : (3+1-3)x card, 3x tucks, (3-1)x eggs, 2x foods" => Means I draw 3 cards in wetland + 1 card exchanging one egg. I used the "tuck and lay egg" power 3 times. And get 2 foods with Hummingbirds

0. Start with 3 foods, Red-Winged Blackbird + random bird <> 2 | 0/0 | 3
1. Red-Winged Blackbird in Wetland <> 1 | 0/3 | 2
2. Wetland : (1-1)x card, 1x tuck, 1x egg <> 1 | 1/3 | 2
3. Play Ruby-throated hummingbird in Wetland <> 0 | 0/5 | 1
4. Wetland : (2-1)x card, 1x tuck, 1x egg, 1x food <> 1 | 1/5 | 2
5. Play Anna's hummingbird in Wetland <> 0 | 0/7 | 1
6. Wetland : (2-1)x card, 1x tuck, 1x egg, 2x foods <> 1 | 1/7 | 3
7. Wetland : (2-1)x card, 1x tuck, 1x egg, 2x foods <> 2 | 2/7 | 5
8. Play Bushtit in Wetland <> 1 | 0/12 | 3
9. Wetland : (3-2)x card, 2x tucks, 2x eggs, 2x foods <> 2 | 2/12 | 5
10. Play Yellow-Headed Blackbird in Wetland <> 1 | 0/15 | 3
11. Wetland : (3-3)x card, 3x tucks, 3x eggs, 2x foods <> 1 | 3/15 | 5
12. Wetland : (3+1-3)x card, 3x tucks, (3-1)x eggs, 2x foods <> 2 | 5/15 | 7
13. Play Mountain Bluebird + Painted Bunting <> 0 | 4/24 | 2
14. Wetland : (3+1-3)x card, 3x tucks, (3-1)x eggs, 2x foods <> 1 | 6/24 | 4
15. Play Greater Prairie-Chicken <> 0 | 5/28 | 1
16. Wetland : (3+1-3)x card, 3x tucks, (3-1)x eggs, 2x foods <> 1 | 7/28 | 3
17. Play Sprague's Pipit <> 0 | 5/31 | 1
18. Wetland : (3+1-3)x card, 3x tucks, (3-1)x eggs, 2x foods <> 1 | 7/31 | 3
19. Wetland : (3+1-3)x card, 3x tucks, (3-1)x eggs, 2x foods <> 2 | 9/31 | 5
20. Wetland : (3+1-3)x card, 3x tucks, (3-1)x eggs, 2x foods <> 3 | 11/31 | 7
21. Play Red-Eyed Vireo + Ruby-Crowned Kinglet + Cassin's Finch <> 0 | 9/39 | 3
22. Wetland : (3+1-3)x card, 3x tucks, (3-1)x eggs, 2x foods <> 1 | 11/39 | 5
23. Play Cerulean Warbler <> 0 | 9/41 | 3
24. Wetland : (3+1-2)x cards, 2x tucks, (2-1)x egg, 2x foods <> 2 | 10/41 | 5
25. Play Bell's Vireo <> 1 | 8/43 | 3
26. Say's Phoebe (12x eggs) <> 0 | 18/46 | 0

7 Bonus cards :
- Ecologist (10 pts)
- Historian (10 pts)
- Prairie manager (8 pts)
- Bird feeder (7 pts)
- Anatomist (7 pts)
- Viticulturalist (7 pts)
- Wildlife gardener (7 pts)

Score:
56 Bonus Cards
22 End of Round Bonus
55 Birds
18 Eggs
32 Tucks

Total : 183 points


Picture of the final game situation : https://imgur.com/a/JtsGP3h

------------------


Now, more interestingly, I'm trying to understand why this strategy is better.

If we think about it simply:
- In the "grassland" game, an ideal turn in grassland earned me 6 eggs + 2 tucks = 8 points.
- In this game, a turn in wetland earns me 2 eggs + 3 tucks = 5 points.

But that's "forgetting" what wetland gives me in addition. In reality, a turn in wetland earns me 2 eggs + 3 tucks + 1 card.

I think the extra card is the key here. In this game, I do absolutely everything from wetland, whereas in grassland I can't win any cards. I was forced to play mediocre moves to win cards. Therefore, I wasn't able to play as many cards that would have given me bonus cards.

This explanation seems sufficient to me, but it doesn't mean the "battle" is over. Perhaps there's a trick I haven't explored yet to make a "grassland" version even better, or even a "forest" version!

[FrankJones]

Impressive.

My apologies if this is a silly question, but was this done using random card draws?

[kostinen]

Impressive.

My apologies if this is a silly question, but was this done using random car draws?

Haha no, of course

This is a dedicated topic for this challenge here :

Here's an idea:

What do you think the max score possible is WITHOUT opponents feeding you cards, food, or eggs?

Here are the rules:
- No opponent (You won't receive cards, food, or eggs from an opponent. Still okay to play/use feeding birds yourself)
- Stacked deck (You choose which birds you draw to your hand + Decide what Bonus Cards you draw)
- Stacked birdfeeder (You choose which food is available in the birdfeeder)
- Arena birds only (No Ravens, Gull, Killdeer, or Wood Duck)

For the sake of the experiment:
- Assume you win all end of round goals - so 22 points automatically!
- Assume predatory birds with dice roll hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of a roll: 1 (dice outside feeder) = .167 (points), 2 = .306, 3 = .421, 4 = .518
- Assume predatory birds with tucking hunt produce the EV (expected value) points of the tuck: <50cm = .57 points, <75cm = .69, <100cm = .79

Post your sequence of 26 moves and total score. Let me know if you have any questions

[kostinen]

Impressive.

My apologies if this is a silly question, but was this done using random card draws?

When theory becomes reality ^^ Here is a "wetland only" game : https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=813561732

So happy to achieve this challenge in the "real" life haha
I will consider to play more often like this when I have tuck&egg + food bird early in the wetland