Bad sportsmanship...kicking players out on winning turns

[Jellby]

Do you think it's right for a player to kick out another player as soon as they can on the final winning turn of the game while they can see he/she is making a move, just to avoid a loss?

Of course. It is expected that people will make a winning (and legal) move when they can. Sometimes they won't make it immediately, especially if they cannot lose... I guess they want the game to last longer and make the winning move at the last moment. Or to put it in another way: why would they lose a game they can easily win instead?

[Suoivax]

I have had enough of the poor sportsmanship on this site! In the last month I've been kicked out of probably a dozen games that I was clearly leading often on a final move that would win the game. I understand that this is partly my fault. There have been some poor connections and I've had to refresh which has cost me time in the course of the game, but on a final Catan move there is a lot happening, which can take time...not to mention if you make a mistake and have to start over. I'm a 300+ Catan player, and a 400-500+ wingspan player who has played way too many games on this site, and who has had 100% karma on this site almost my entire time, but now my karma is 50. While I accept some responsibility here, it is incredibly poor sportsmanship to boot a player that is about to win a game on a final turn just to avoid the loss. This has happened so many times with high level players (300+) that it's become personally disgusting to me.

I'll be deactivating my account. To be fair, this is partly because I waste too much time here, but it is also partly because I simply don't want to go through the hoops of restoring karma that was lost on games that I would have and SHOULD HAVE won.

Something needs to be done to fix this problem. I've recommended to BGA a one minute grace option to allow a player the time needed to make a complex move and to help avoid a scenario where a play in an active turn gets booted by a poor sport trying to avoid a loss.

I'm writing this because I think I'm probably not the only one who feels this way. I understand the need for time constraints. They are necessary. I just think something must be done to correct this abuse, and a "once off" one minute grace period would remedy this. I did suggest this in my final email to customer support, but no meaningful response was given.

Happy gaming to you all!

Bad sportsmanship is a player consistently going over time and coming to the forums to whine about it.

[amullek]

Sure I can go to five minute turns but that doesn't seem like a good answer either, as I am generally a fast player, but as these games advance there can be a lot of moving parts.

Sorry to disagree but you dont seem to be a generally fast player. I looked at your recent 10 games (all played on the fastest speed setting) and only in one (!) game you stayed in time.

In fast time settings you have 44 seconds per move and you are expected to finish *every* move in those 44 seconds. If you dont, you have a grace period of 3 minutes that you can refill if you then play faster than 44 seconds per move.

In almost all your games you over-use your time during the whole game and your time bank decreases further and further untill in the end - when longer moves occur - you lose on time. Sometimes your opponents seem to be upset by having had to wait the whole game for you and kick you immediately, sometimes they let you play the game out. Both is fine.

You describe it like you had the full time bank during the whole game (i.e. playing the speed that you are expected to) and only in the end you exceed your 44 seconds. None of the 9/10 games you went into red confirms that.

Please note that normal speed has 1:11 per turn (time bank 4min) and slow speed has 1:54 per turn (time bank 6min). Choose a setting where you never go into red (except a power outage once a year) and you will not be kicked. Problem solved.

The last game in question, my speed was :44 seconds per turn. Well below the "normal speed" you've suggested. I was traveling last week, and have had some bad connections and have already mentioned I had to refresh my page some, which caused some of the time push. If I would have anticipated this problem I should have played normal speed, but have never played normal speed and never had this problem until now. You're right that changing speed is a fair answer to this problem in general, but I'm so disillusioned by the sportsmanship and the lack of support from BGA over this issue that I'm done.

[Suoivax]

Sure I can go to five minute turns but that doesn't seem like a good answer either, as I am generally a fast player, but as these games advance there can be a lot of moving parts.

Sorry to disagree but you dont seem to be a generally fast player. I looked at your recent 10 games (all played on the fastest speed setting) and only in one (!) game you stayed in time.

In fast time settings you have 44 seconds per move and you are expected to finish *every* move in those 44 seconds. If you dont, you have a grace period of 3 minutes that you can refill if you then play faster than 44 seconds per move.

In almost all your games you over-use your time during the whole game and your time bank decreases further and further untill in the end - when longer moves occur - you lose on time. Sometimes your opponents seem to be upset by having had to wait the whole game for you and kick you immediately, sometimes they let you play the game out. Both is fine.

You describe it like you had the full time bank during the whole game (i.e. playing the speed that you are expected to) and only in the end you exceed your 44 seconds. None of the 9/10 games you went into red confirms that.

Please note that normal speed has 1:11 per turn (time bank 4min) and slow speed has 1:54 per turn (time bank 6min). Choose a setting where you never go into red (except a power outage once a year) and you will not be kicked. Problem solved.

The last game in question, my speed was :44 seconds per turn. Well below the "normal speed" you've suggested. I was traveling last week, and have had some bad connections and have already mentioned I had to refresh my page some, which caused some of the time push. If I would have anticipated this problem I should have played normal speed, but have never played normal speed and never had this problem until now. You're right that changing speed is a fair answer to this problem in general, but I'm so disillusioned by the sportsmanship and the lack of support from BGA over this issue that I'm done.

So... you broke a rule, and lost a game for it, but are quitting because the site wont let it slide?

[Kaladry]

If this is constantly happening to you then you need to manage your time better on your turns, or play at a slower speed as others have suggested.

That being said, I have encountered a player here and there who clicks the boot button as soon as you hit 0 time and the most annoying thing about it is the developers have put the warning banner over the game controls. So when that pops up its even furthering your negative time as you have to wait for it to disappear before you can click Continue/Pass/etc which is another 2-5 seconds or so.

[Mathew5000]

Also, my proposed one minute grace period is a "once off" ability for a player to extend time on a complex turn without having to increase the time of the game by moving to slow or normal just to compensate for those rare moments.

Another proposal that might work better is adding a game speed with a high maximum but very little time added per turn: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=144459 (currently 59 upvotes)

[euklid314]

Good idea (and I upvoted a long time ago).

But I think that the proposed time setting would not necessarily solve the problems of those that go over time at the current fast time setting. They are exhausting their time bank during the game now and will do it with your setting as well. In both cases they may complain that they had not enough time for their last (longer) moves.

Furthermore, such a time setting is not very useful for games that have very different numbers of moves per game. Cant Stop being a prominent example. But even Catan games can be very lengthy at times if, e.g., all players lose their initial city at the first C&K barbarian attack, or all the numbers are bad for one ressource (11, 12, 2 on clay) and produce a global shortage.

[Jontia]

Also, my proposed one minute grace period is a "once off" ability for a player to extend time on a complex turn without having to increase the time of the game by moving to slow or normal just to compensate for those rare moments.

Another proposal that might work better is adding a game speed with a high maximum but very little time added per turn: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=144459 (currently 59 upvotes)

How about turning it the other way. Going over time is automatic kick/loss.

This takes away any idea that it is poor sportsmanship by making the time limit an actual limit. Putting the control entirely in your hands, it's your clock and your opponent has no impact/choice in the matter.

This is the way Chess works in competitive settings.

[The_Third]

Totally agree...late game turns can take time...need to think things through...implement...the timer screws all that...and then losers cheat and expel versus allowing the leader to win...sucks...

I have had enough of the poor sportsmanship on this site! In the last month I've been kicked out of probably a dozen games that I was clearly leading often on a final move that would win the game. I understand that this is partly my fault. There have been some poor connections and I've had to refresh which has cost me time in the course of the game, but on a final Catan move there is a lot happening, which can take time...not to mention if you make a mistake and have to start over. I'm a 300+ Catan player, and a 400-500+ wingspan player who has played way too many games on this site, and who has had 100% karma on this site almost my entire time, but now my karma is 50. While I accept some responsibility here, it is incredibly poor sportsmanship to boot a player that is about to win a game on a final turn just to avoid the loss. This has happened so many times with high level players (300+) that it's become personally disgusting to me.

I'll be deactivating my account. To be fair, this is partly because I waste too much time here, but it is also partly because I simply don't want to go through the hoops of restoring karma that was lost on games that I would have and SHOULD HAVE won.

Something needs to be done to fix this problem. I've recommended to BGA a one minute grace option to allow a player the time needed to make a complex move and to help avoid a scenario where a play in an active turn gets booted by a poor sport trying to avoid a loss.

I'm writing this because I think I'm probably not the only one who feels this way. I understand the need for time constraints. They are necessary. I just think something must be done to correct this abuse, and a "once off" one minute grace period would remedy this. I did suggest this in my final email to customer support, but no meaningful response was given.

Happy gaming to you all!

The last game that you have been kicked out (which sent you to 50 Karma and probably provoked the post) has been played at the fastest possible time setting.

When you play these settings you have to play *really* fast. Sometimes you even must take suboptimal moves (refrain from building settlements and cities) if you would otherwise use too much time.

As soon as you have used up all your time and are in red you have immediately lost the game! If all players agree by not kicking you you might still play on. But that is a gift of the other players which you have no right to expect.

Please note that the grace period you suggest already exists. It is 3 minutes (even more than you wish) in the fastest time settings and even longer in normal and slow games (time bank).

If you use some of your time bank you can easily fill it up again by playing some faster moves. Thus you again have 3 minutes for a move that might take a little longer.

Thus: Choose a time setting that you can easily stick to (normal or slow speed, probably) and never fully use up you grace time.

[BrettsPeeler]

Of all games on BGA, this is by far the most toxic. People are kicked for having too many things to do in a turn, the timer ticks while the game is processing the sound effects, etc., and for only 20sec added at the end of a turn, which gets drained for every trade action? Not okay. Please fix the time limits or allow game creators to define the seconds gained back.

And these were friendly games, too, not even Arena matches