What's your favorite map and why?

[RoyalRook]

I like Tharsis because it's so deep and the MS/Awards are perfect, there are no freebies. I love Elysium bc it rewards patience, I hate Hellas and Vastitas bc there are roo many freebies, arctic algae on Vastitas is just insane, I say Hellas and Vastitas has the lowest skill ceiling.

I‘m baffled: Elysium has even more freebies than Hellas: Generalist, Specialist and Ecologist can all be claimed gen 1 first action when you get the right preludes. And if you‘re talking about placement bonuses … how about 3 cards?

Elysium you have to grind it out, Hellas is just a lower ocean rebate Tharsis, random Polar Settler -10 point swing is no fun while they get a free ocean right off bat as well. You could be running hot, and bam, AI Central with those rewards and you are like am I done? Ecoline also somehow becomes more ridiculous with diversifier, you do eco expert with ecoline going for diversifier, tactician, polar, or even energizer for heat, with cultivator on your way. That's just free. Cultivator......WTF?? You mean Hellas Ecoline/Credicor gets their VIP new and improved LandLord that no one can steal with cheap tiles? A wealthy river on the edge so essentially only one get to benefit? Cap is just straight trash. Somehow the steam community think this map is the most balanced, maybe that's the problem with that group thinking. Ewww. Oh, let's not forget that free ocean gave you back 6MC either in tit or plant with no parameter restrictions.

I don't lose the game with missing out 3 cards on Elysium, I go central city max rebate to swing my effeciency, but can't fund estate too fast or looking over the desert. Elysium is amazing.

P.S. I am calling the 3 plant rebate center spot the City Central, with full rebate we take 8 plants + 16 cash from your opponents(them), dominion over both estate and the desert, city of all cities. It's the Constantinople of Mars.

[RoyalRook]

Hellas is arguably the best balanced map for 2p if removing prelude corps. Tharsis is mostly solved and a bit stale but still very good, Elysium is an RNG fest map

I feel like most of the discord feels this way at this point. I’m still partial to Elysium because it’s the map I find most aesthetically pleasing but from a competitive perspective Hellas feels like the map with the best overall balance.

Did you mistaken Hellas with Elysium? B/c I remember specifically that hodge and such doesn't like to play on Hellas with the balance and various issues.

[Bogeyun]

I like Tharsis because it's so deep and the MS/Awards are perfect, there are no freebies. I love Elysium bc it rewards patience, I hate Hellas and Vastitas bc there are roo many freebies, arctic algae on Vastitas is just insane, I say Hellas and Vastitas has the lowest skill ceiling.

I‘m baffled: Elysium has even more freebies than Hellas: Generalist, Specialist and Ecologist can all be claimed gen 1 first action when you get the right preludes. And if you‘re talking about placement bonuses … how about 3 cards?

Elysium you have to grind it out, Hellas is just a lower ocean rebate Tharsis, random Polar Settler -10 point swing is no fun while they get a free ocean right off bat as well. You could be running hot, and bam, AI Central with those rewards and you are like am I done? Ecoline also somehow becomes more ridiculous with diversifier, you do eco expert with ecoline going for diversifier, tactician, polar, or even energizer for heat, with cultivator on your way. That's just free. Cultivator......WTF?? You mean Hellas Ecoline/Credicor gets their VIP new and improved LandLord that no one can steal with cheap tiles? A wealthy river on the edge so essentially only one get to benefit? Cap is just straight trash. Somehow the steam community think this map is the most balanced, maybe that's the problem with that group thinking. Ewww. Oh, let's not forget that free ocean gave you back 6MC either in tit or plant with no parameter restrictions.

I don't lose the game with missing out 3 cards on Elysium, I go central city max rebate to swing my effeciency, but can't fund estate too fast or looking over the desert. Elysium is amazing.

P.S. I am calling the 3 plant rebate center spot the City Central, with full rebate we take 8 plants + 16 cash from your opponents(them), dominion over both estate and the desert, city of all cities. It's the Constantinople of Mars.

TIL ecoline is buffed on hellas, somehow I doubt that =D

[RoyalRook]

Ocean and free heat in the south and central ocean, motherload plants in the north. Simple Polar then cultivate /vip landlord how's that not a buff?

[mozkiz]

Ocean and free heat in the south and central ocean, motherload plants in the north. Simple Polar then cultivate /vip landlord how's that not a buff?

As someone who has played like over 1000 games on Hellas on Steam and not that many on Tharsis... I would definitely consider Ecoline a tier lower than it is on Tharsis.

As Ecoline you're never doing your initial converts in the south, best spot for Ecoline is clearly north west and also you don't want to risk giving this spot up. You can possibly later pivot down south and convert with a card like nuke zone but it's dependent on getting these cards. Plus you can be playing against a corp like Mining Guild who is highly motivated by many of the polar spots (very satisfying when you can smack down mining rights -> mining area as this corp)

The most popularly contended milestone on this map is Diversifier in my experience but Ecoline doesn't really have the funds for this, plus heat cards are a building tag or event mostly and don't really help with this milestone (or any milestone). At least you have the plant tag which can be one of the harder ones to get early gen.

Cultivator should generally be safe yes. (Although I've taken Cultivator from an Ecoline who EE->Kelp gen 1 on this map )

I would definitely choose Ecoline over some other corps but I think the other two maps are better for it.

On this map I think the most buffed corp is Vitor, as the map generally rewards engine building and the free fund magnate is pretty much made for this corp.

[Bogeyun]

Ocean and free heat in the south and central ocean, motherload plants in the north. Simple Polar then cultivate /vip landlord how's that not a buff?

There's nothing simple about polar. You mentioned how people can't compete on Culti with non-Greenery tiles, well the opposite applies on Polar - any tiles work. (On Tharsis - greeneries are required for gardener!). Any non-Ecoline is happy to take card/Titanium rebates on Polar.

The other big Hellas/Tharsis difference is: going Polar means you sacrifice Ocean+Plant rebates, which is what accelerates Ecoline so much on Tharsis, you get gardener by placing 1-2 oceans that give massive rebates of both MC+Plants. You can't do this on Hellas. Oh - speaking of ocean rebates - they just don't really exist on Hellas. You're getting like half the ocean rebates compared to Tharsis/Elysium. You're also getting less plants from ocean placements. Also the oceans with best MC rebates (Hexagon), have the worst plant rebates (NW oceans!), so there is always a trade-off between MC and Plants. On tharsis? Just take best plant+MC rebates all in the center.

Milestones can be a nightmare for ecoline - you can't just terraform with events, you have to play cards to get anything that isn't Polar. Realistically you might be able to get Tactician / Polar (both will be contested). Energizer used as heat sounds nice, but that only works with setups that get 6 energy prod in the first few gens (insanely rare). Developing energy prod gen 4+ to "use as heat" is horrible efficiency. If you ignore mass converter, energizer is the least claimed milestone on Hellas by far.

But yes, all of that is to say, you have way less rebates, and way worse ms+awards. Culti is the closest thing to a 'guarantee', but any good ecoline setup is generally getting Gardener+Terraformer+LL on tharsis to cruise to a victory. On hellas - you might get polar+Cultivator with the same setup (Ice+NZ+GIA etc), and no other MS+Awards, while also having worse rebates. You will just win less games as ecoline with the same quality of cards compared to Tharsis map.

[Bogeyun]

but yeah, people are probably gonna hate hellas here if forced to play with prelude corps

[jaymc1130]

but yeah, people are probably gonna hate hellas here if forced to play with prelude corps

I don’t know if the maps matter, the prelude corps not having the ability to be turned off just in general is a nightmare for increased variance and reduced skill cap. No matter what we choose it’s going to be annoying until we get an option to turn the prelude corps off and get to something more reasonable for maximizing the skill component.

[mozkiz]

I would love to see Point Luna turned off...

[jaymc1130]

I would love to see Point Luna turned off...

My Opponents when playing PL: EO, EC, Acquired, Sponsors, Media Group, Cartel by gen 3.

My PL draws: Gen 8, 3 total earth tags seen all game, and one comes from PL…