High Skill Dice Abstracts

[MarkSteere]

I'm looking for simple games with dice and a high skill to luck ratio. So far I've found Backgammon, Can't Stop, and Shut The Box.

Are there any other BGA games in this category?

Jokerball, now in alpha, seems to have a high skill to luck ratio. I want to see how it compares to other, similar games.

[lefalaf]

Route 66 / The Mother Road is similar to Can't Stop, but with a few tweaks. Same designer IIRC. Board is tough to look at - too busy, but the game itself is quite nice to me and those I've shared it with.
https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=themotherroad

I feel there are others, but I cannot think of them at the moment. If I recall more, I'll report back.

EDIT: Thanks for the heads up on Jokerball. I'll add it to my list to check out / test when time permits.

[lefalaf]

Knister, Spitter, Can't Stop Express

Perhaps a little heavier on luck:
ODicey, Qwinto

With a looser definition of abstract I suppose - not sure if they qualify:
Roll n Bump, Dicy Cards, Diced Tomatoes

[yodamus]

Hmm. I am confused. Seems he wants high skill with the luck. Yet. His examples are pretty much all luck no skill. There are lots of games with 2/5 skill. 3/5 luck. Some named above me. 61 autumn leaves, spots, roll n bump, if similar to shut the box. 0/5 skill 5/5 luck. Try farkle.

[Jellby]

https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=cephalopod

(You never said that the dice must be rolled)

https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=vault
https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?ga ... ttablegype
https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=hypnosia
https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=ludo
https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=battlegammon
https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=yatzy
https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=inverteddice

(I wouldn't call these high skill, but if Can't Stop counts...)

[MarkSteere]

Thanks for the information, everyone. I will look into all of these games.

Lefalaf, Jokerball is still in alpha. I sent you an invite in case you have difficulty accessing it.

Yodamus, I've seen Backgammon described as 80/20 skill to luck. I don't know how that's calculated. Apparently there's a technique involving the standard deviation of the ELO distribution, or some such. I know from experience that in Backgammon, a much higher rated player is almost certain to beat me, but at the same time I've seen players getting the precise rolls they need to completely flip the advantage, or a huge number of doubles. So luck clearly plays a big role. Kind of depends how you look at it.

My goal in designing Jokerball was a high skill to luck ratio. Once it goes into beta, and people get a little experience with it, I'll be interested to know what they think about it. The strategy won't be obvious the first time you play. So it might come across as mostly luck at first. It takes a little practice for skill to develop. Can't Stop and Shut The Box were listed by google as high skill games, but I will certainly look into the ones you listed.

Jellby, I'm very familiar with Cephaloped. I invented it, and I've played it at least hundreds of times on various sites, if not thousands. It's played on another site with 12-sided dice and 3x3 board options. Thanks for the information about the games though. I don't know if I'll have a chance to play all of the games everyone mentioned, but at least I will read all the rule sheets and play some of them.

Thanks again, everyone.

........

Here is the Jokerball rule sheet, in case anyone is interested...

https://www.marksteeregames.com/Jokerball_rules.pdf

[Jellby]

Jellby, I'm very familiar with Cephaloped.

Doh! I knew that of course, I even had to look in your site for it, because I had forgotten it's name (I searched for "octopus" and "squid"). I just didn't realize it was you who asked

[MarkSteere]

No worries

[Meeplelowda]

Yodamus, I've seen Backgammon described as 80/20 skill to luck. I don't know how that's calculated. Apparently there's a technique involving the standard deviation of the ELO distribution, or some such.

That would be the most precise way to characterize the skill/luck relationship, but we don't have access to that on BGA. One proxy for that information, however crude, is to look at highest ELO that has been achieved in a particular game. The higher that ELO, the more skill plays a dominant role in a game. Think of games where the highest ELO is in the 700s or higher.

On the other end of the spectrum are games in which the highest ELO is in the 300s to low-400s. Those are basically just elaborate ways of flipping coins.

[MarkSteere]

Meeplelowda, that was helpful.

My other two dice abstracts, other games, and their top ELOs...

Herd . . 322
Diablo . . 346

Farkle . . 386
Shut The Box . . 379
Can't Stop . . 431
Can't Stop Express . . 471
Yahtzee . . 544
Backgammon . . 554

I think Backgammon and Yahtzee might get a boost from having a lot more players, many being highly experienced and talented.

I've played Herd about 2500 times, and my rating is 144. I know Herd play is more than elaborate coin flipping, or what I call a dice rolling contest. But not by much.

I'm hoping Jokerball will involve a much higher degree of skill than Herd, and be somewhere in the neighborhood of Backgammon, or higher.

So far I've won 42 out of 50 Jokerball games. I don't know how meaningful that is. I'm generally not a very talented player. I'm a Jokerball beginner who usually beats players with only a game or two experience. But it doesn't seem like bad news.

So far, only 63 games have been played, and there are only 6 games in progress. Once Jokerball makes beta, there should be a lot more data. It depends on how many people like it. There are mixed reviews. A few people like it a lot. A few didn't understand it. I revised the rule sheet several times, trying to make it as clear and unambiguous as possible.