Do corners count as adjacent?

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Mechton
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Joined: 27 December 2024, 04:34

Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by Mechton »

According to the current edition rulebook, linked on Bezier's own site ( https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0740/ ... tachment=1 )

Page 11, red side bar shows examples that deal with round rooms and corners describing adjacency.
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CIAFlux
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Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by CIAFlux »

Mechton wrote: 22 August 2025, 16:15 According to the current edition rulebook, linked on Bezier's own site ( https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0740/ ... tachment=1 )

Page 11, red side bar shows examples that deal with round rooms and corners describing adjacency.
I think what they are attempting to show is the circle room isn't physical touching when aligned properly. The collector edition rules are probably the ones that should be referenced. They have a similar example but show overhead instead of isometric.
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Jellby
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Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by Jellby »

OK, I stand corrected by the Collector's edition rulebook (https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/2155 ... ition-rule)

Image
Image

I still believe that what's written in the regular rulebook means that corners touch (they define that adjacency means touch, but they don't define touch :D). But the explicit mention to corners makes it much clearer (although it says that corners can touch, maybe corners should not be considered "part of a wall"?).

NB. The flute room is pictured with flat entrances at the top, but the piano room is pictured with round entrances (and back wall).
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Jellby
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Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by Jellby »

spaceman256 wrote: 21 August 2025, 18:16 I want to know the official ruling, so that I can submit a bug report and have it corrected.
You don't need to submit a bug report: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=179687
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spaceman256
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Joined: 08 August 2024, 01:37

Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by spaceman256 »

Thank you everybody, exactly what I was looking for. Guess i didn't realize there are older versions of the rulebook.

Funny, it looks like that thread and that bug report were posted by the same person. Beat me to the punch on all fronts.
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spaceman256
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Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by spaceman256 »

WildPenguin82 wrote: 22 August 2025, 09:13 Starting to become a monologue, but I still have another question I could not find an answer (in discussions coming to the conclusion that corners touching does not count).

But what about the Foyer? It's doorways are a bit "wider", i.e. their straight section is longer than a grid square. If there was a corner of an activity room (with corridor penalty) next to the doorway, it should count in any case (as it's more than just the tip of the corner what is touching).

A picture may help to explain.
Image
I would probably lean towards counting that as adjacent, but in the spirit of this thread, i don't know what the official ruling would be.
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WildPenguin82
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Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by WildPenguin82 »

I know the issue here has already been agreed, it's a bug.

I'm veering OT, but for the mathematically minded, I still have a nitpick or perhaps interesting point, considering the subject of touching. The thing is: I believe at most two objects can touch at any given point. This is true in all (numbers of) dimensions. Why, you might ask?

Well, the thing is, there is no infinitesimally small physical object, such a thing does not exist. There is a smallest unit (a geometrical body) that can exist, an atom, if you will. A "point" does not make sense when dealing with physical bodies.

You can think of this in many ways; say, if two corners are meeting each other, can air pass between them? If yes, they are not touching (since air can pass). If air can not pass, they must be touching. But remember the air is also "a physical body", if air can pass, the two bodies of air (as divided by the rooms) are touching! Both can not be true at the same time. See:

Image

Another way to think about it is, say we have a surface (call it A). Cover it partially with a wedge-like body B (it doesn't necessarily have to be wedge-like, but makes easier to get the point trough). Take another similar body C, and cover rest of A with it, so that it's touching B. Now all A, B and C are touching each other. Take a body D, and notice you can not touch A with it! You can take B and C apart a bit and now A can touch D. Bot not both sets A,D and B,C can touch each other at the same time (at the same place).

You could also think of a pie and slice it into arbitrary many pieces so that the cutting line intersects at the same place. The pieces are only touching their neighboring pieces (at most, or exactly two pieces, if the pie is whole). If the cutting lines are not perfect, then two (and only two) pieces can meet at (or around) the center point.

This is not just a physical thing but also a mathematical thing; it depends on how we define touching. If touching means the areas need to have more than an infinitesimally small point of contact, then at most two objects can touch at a single point (or around; more precisely on an [N-1]-dimensional plane at this point in N-dimensional space). I don't know enough about the subject but there must be some theorem, axiom or something in the field of topology or maybe even set theory, linear algebra or something out there.

EDIT: By this analogy, no pieces taking up spaces on a grid are touching only by their corners, as the point where the corners meet, is infinitesimally small.
Last edited by WildPenguin82 on 02 September 2025, 22:45, edited 2 times in total.
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spaceman256
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Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by spaceman256 »

The BGA developer has responded to the bug report and has refused to fix it. They simply cited the second edition rulebook, where it says "any part of one room touches any part of the other".

What do we do now? After discussing it here it seems extremely clear that corners do not count as adjacent, and every BGG thread i can find that mentions this topic is in agreement, including one by the game's designer here.

We need to put more attention on this issue so that they fix it. I want to play more of this game, but i can't enjoy it knowing that BGA is (now purposefully) misinterpreting the rules.
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HotShot53
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Joined: 02 December 2011, 20:40

Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by HotShot53 »

As the person who posted the question on BGG and made the original bug report, I agree completely. I have played this in tournaments such as at the World Boardgaming Championships and Euroquest, and corners never counted as touching there, even before the collectors edition came out that specifically says corners don't count as touching. It was never even a question before. Is there any way to get the designer/publisher to give an official ruling that the implementor here will follow?
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spaceman256
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Joined: 08 August 2024, 01:37

Re: Do corners count as adjacent?

Post by spaceman256 »

I posted a new bug report - https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=183210

Please upvote and comment on it in hopes that the developer takes it seriously this time.
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