Opinions on 3P Kingmaking

[Gh0stdragon]

Imo Kingmaking is deliberately helping one of the players. You Should play as you would normally do, Eg, place greeneries , cause the other player might have funded the award assuming you would.
As for the city vs greenery debate. You are free to do whatever you like. As long as you are not doing your actions out of spite of a player, I feel like it is fair game.

[Agbisweird]

This post (which is great, thanks for starting it Xs) reminds me of why I avoid all T Mars games that are not 2p. There are board games that have less kingmaking in 3p+, but T Mars is not one of them.

While we are on the subject / thread - perhaps we (or even better someone who is on Asmodee's payroll and gets paid to work on here) should let them know that (most / all?) of the community of T Mars players view Kingmaking as an intricate part of T Mars (see this thread for evidence?); perhaps BGA should be more precise on their site rules including the one that states that Kingmaking is against the Terms of Service / Conduct.

[FrankJones]

But, as Primrose noted, passing still affects the outcome. It's a difficult situation with no easy answer. Everyone has made good points. I'm not sure what can be done that would best appease everyone. Keeping Arena 2-player is the best move, I think?

[Bogeyun]

You absolutely dont place the final greenery bc you will be changing the placement with your action, you only observe the frozen moment in time, the 3rd player at that moment should be a non factor by passing all his actions.

Your second point is irrelevant, since you cant predict the final outcome in an on going game, only the end game sequence is relevant.

what if you are in 3rd place with 3 greeneries to place? (ie: 10+ plant prod). The player who funded cultivator likely expected you to convert your plants and expected their closest competition to get 0 points on Cultivator, but you are saying that 3rd place should concede the Cultivator points and give it to 2nd place !?!?! That's nonsensical to me.

You didn't answer my point at all - how is it not king-making to 'not convert' ? Being passive is a form of king-making. Whatever action you choose (Convert or Not-Convert) is deciding who will win, you are FORCED to king-make.

there are many such scenarios in 3p games at various points - there is some stuff that is common sense, but others where it's kinda blurry.

[Bogeyun]

everyone is gonna have a different definition over what is 'king-making' but whether you like it or not, there are scenarios you are forced to king-make, it's good to have rules against king-making and punish ppl for blatant abuse, but if you're in a position where your last actions get to decide who wins that's a decision you ultimately get to make.

As said repeatedly - being passive and not doing plays that make sense/maximise your score, is a form of king-making in itself.

[RoyalRook]

No its not because most common king/prince making involves ecoline. Maximizing her score and gift free points can be avoided via passing, the same thing goes for 1st and 3rd placement funding an award while their own outcome has been decided. Null action is the best solution, you just need to have a real go at 3p arena to understand this.

Null action is the proper and only solution because it's consistent.

[primrose1234]

*post moderated

[Bogeyun]

No its not because most common king/prince making involves ecoline. Maximizing her score and gift free points can be avoided via passing, the same thing goes for 1st and 3rd placement funding an award while their own outcome has been decided. Null action is the best solution, you just need to have a real go at 3p arena to understand this.

Null action is the proper and only solution because it's consistent.

So as the player in 3rd place, you would not convert your multiple greeneries and king-make cultivator (giving P2 2nd place on the award, and the win) even though Player1 funded it assuming you would convert since you have a bunch of plant prod?

It's a yes or no question.

[Attica451]

I had a game where I was in 3rd place in the final gen. 1st place player was dominating the entire game and I had throughout the game destroyed like 16 plants of his, stole his power, tile blocked his cities, and predatored him once or twice. He was in first for landlord and i was 2nd. The 2nd place player needed to take 2nd place landlord to win the game and would have but i played virus on him in the final gen. He cried I was kingmaking cause he would have won the game if I hadn't acted the last gen. I hate this idea of kingmaking because it only takes into consideration the final gens actions. Even though throughout the game i was practically kingmaking the 2nd place player he only considered my final gen actions as the ones that effected the winner. I just want to play the game and get my max score without politics coming into play.

[RoyalRook]

No its not because most common king/prince making involves ecoline. Maximizing her score and gift free points can be avoided via passing, the same thing goes for 1st and 3rd placement funding an award while their own outcome has been decided. Null action is the best solution, you just need to have a real go at 3p arena to understand this.

Null action is the proper and only solution because it's consistent.

So as the player in 3rd place, you would not convert your multiple greeneries and king-make cultivator (giving P2 2nd place on the award, and the win) even though Player1 funded it assuming you would convert since you have a bunch of plant prod?

It's a yes or no question.

Read the OP's scenario, the 1st player has secured the cultivator, the orignal funding had very little consideration for the 3rd's end game plant production.

When you are in a king making situation and out of running for 1st and 2nd, the most consistent and safe way of dealing with it is to do nothing. I would gladly to hear some input from other past 3p highly ranked arena participants. From what I observed, it's the most fair way of avoiding king making, the lower ranked players on the other hand, often chosen to maximize their score during end game instead of avoiding king making scenarios. Some of the ecoline players would even go farther, intentionally convert greeneries away from their own cities to king make. Honestly, I don't think I saw any 600 Elo 3p matches ended up with someone king make. Once you grind the 3p arena, the top competitors all had an understanding, because they are often the top target for king makers.