Plugin to assist - Azul arena cheating

[Jowzer]

https://azex-changelog.cloud-flr.workers.dev/#1_1_2

I was recently linked this when playing a game of azul, are you telling me people are regularly using tools like this in arena? That's using something outside of the game to help and is tantamount to cheating imo. If you're using something that's not in the client to help you play the game, then -you- are not making the decisions, you're just letting a computer do the tracking for you. Should be bannable imo.

[buu441]

Lol reading the description of the plug-in, nowhere does it mention that it makes decisions for you. All it does it keep track of trackable info. Which top players are probably doing in turn based mode anyway by taking notes. This looks like just a quality of life add on.

[C0d3N1nj4]

@Jowzer

1. You're wrong. The extension does NOT make any decisions for you. There's absolutely no strategy assistance or tips for making moves, so that does NOT qualify as cheating.

2. The extension's main function is to count the remaining tiles for you, which 60-70% of players are already doing by taking notes. Yes, that's right - you've been playing against people who take notes of tile counts for years. And that's ok because we are all playing the online version of Azul, not the live game you put on your table at home. Online gaming comes with certain perks, one of which is the ability to take notes. Even the Azul game here gives you a "Notes" button where you can do the same thing the extension is doing.

3. The extension is still very young with a small user base, but that's going to change very soon when it gets announced here in the Forum, so everyone will know about it and be able to enjoy it. Of course you've already posted the link, but it would be much more appropriate to have an announcement that doesn't include the word "cheating" in the title.

[RicardoRix]

Any aid not supplied by BGA is cheating. Stop making excuses to exempt yourself.

If you want that extra information, then make it fair for everybody and ask the developer to add it.

Note, that BGA for good reason offers board game adaptions and would like to keep it as close to real-life play as possible.

[euklid314]

I mainly agree with RicardoRix but I might have a more lenient attitude.

If I remember correctly, tile counting is frowned upon by the BGA staff. At least I think I read some forum posts by administrators with this message (was it in the Carcassonne forum?).

But there is nothing written in the official FAQ (at least I have found nothing) thus one has to accept that players use written notes or tile counting apps that would not be allowed or accepted in Real Life play. It would be impossible to forbid it anyways since there is no means to control such a rule.

Thus, I do not use any written notes in Azul (or Carcassone) which is no big problem since I exclusively play real time games and I just have to remember the few discarded tiles of rounds 1-4 in order to know the final 20 tiles in round 5. Most of the time I am too lazy to keep track mentally. I am well aware that other players will use written notes (and thus have faster and more precise information) and I am fine with it.

In turn based games even I might be tempted to take written notes because remembering the discarded tiles for a real time game of 10 minutes is easy but remembering the same information over several days and possibly with many parallel games is almost impossible. Thus taking notes (or analyzing the game log) is closer to the real life game than not having this information.

[FrankJones]

@Jowzer

1. You're wrong. The extension does NOT make any decisions for you. There's absolutely no strategy assistance or tips for making moves, so that does NOT qualify as cheating.

2. The extension's main function is to count the remaining tiles for you, which 60-70% of players are already doing by taking notes. Yes, that's right - you've been playing against people who take notes of tile counts for years. And that's ok because we are all playing the online version of Azul, not the live game you put on your table at home. Online gaming comes with certain perks, one of which is the ability to take notes. Even the Azul game here gives you a "Notes" button where you can do the same thing the extension is doing.

3. The extension is still very young with a small user base, but that's going to change very soon when it gets announced here in the Forum, so everyone will know about it and be able to enjoy it. Of course you've already posted the link, but it would be much more appropriate to have an announcement that doesn't include the word "cheating" in the title.

Also, just to further your point, even in a real-life over-the-board game on our table at home, we can just look in the box lid and count the tiles.
Playing a 5-round 2-player game without knowing which tiles are left in the bag is rather silly. (I do not sue the extension, but I do use notes.)

[CameronHamill]

Any aid not supplied by BGA is cheating. Stop making excuses to exempt yourself.

If you want that extra information, then make it fair for everybody and ask the developer to add it.

Note, that BGA for good reason offers board game adaptions and would like to keep it as close to real-life play as possible.

I agree. Any aides used during games are cheating. Unless all players agree upon use of the aides before the game starts though. Or perhaps unless there's a way of selecting a check box 'tile counting used' in this game. But my question is this: at the master level is it assumed tile counting aides are used?

I have read other users arguments that it's not customary to keep notes on tiles served in real life games. So why would you keep notes because it's online just because you are able to?

[Strode]

Any aid not supplied by BGA is cheating. Stop making excuses to exempt yourself.

If you want that extra information, then make it fair for everybody and ask the developer to add it.

Note, that BGA for good reason offers board game adaptions and would like to keep it as close to real-life play as possible.

I agree. Any aides used during games are cheating. Unless all players agree upon use of the aides before the game starts though. Or perhaps unless there's a way of selecting a check box 'tile counting used' in this game. But my question is this: at the master level is it assumed tile counting aides are used?

I have read other users arguments that it's not customary to keep notes on tiles served in real life games. So why would you keep notes because it's online just because you are able to?

If you're playing turn-based, it's impossible to remember what's gone on before as you might do playing live in real-time. So the 'Notes' section on BGA makes up for that. Asynch online games are just different, much the way correspondence Chess wasn't the same as OTB Chess.

Now, using an app is more than I'd ever do, but I don't think it violates any principle.

[spaidsjustin]

The very reason I join bga is I love table top games,, having plug in like this spoils the fun.

[GonzaloDLPG]

There are currently three factors that are ruining this game on the BGA. Playing online is supposed to be as close as possible to playing in real life. So here are those three factors:

1) Constantly undoing moves. It's unbelievable that there is no longer an option to change this setting. Some players undo their moves six times in a single turn. For me, and although I know I'm going against the majority of Azul players on this platform, it's awful. Can you imagine playing in real life with a player like that? It's totally forbidden. Can you imagine in a soccer game a player missing a penalty and saying to the referee, “Sorry, I'm going to take it again to do better and try to score the goal”? Anyway...

2) People using plugins that count the tiles. Unbelievable. It's a game, our lives don't depend on it. It doesn't matter if you win or lose. I've never seen a player in real life counting the tiles that come out to see how many are left. Horrible.

3) And then there are the people who concede the game when they know they're not going to win. Anyway... No comment.

I wish none of those three things were allowed.