No penalties for intentionally stalling in turn-based games in order to avoid losing the game before the end of the seas

[Vad55]

As already discussed, the handling of games near the end of an Arena season is a special case. But in general, there are no penalties, nor there should be, for just making a game longer than you expected, within the allotted time.

You're writing about how fair the fines are in such cases. So, that's simply your opinion on how things should be. But I'm writing about something else entirely: the BGA claims it imposes fines for this kind of thing. I'm simply advocating for compliance with the rules. As far as I understand, you're opposed to compliance with the current BGA rules because you consider them unfair?

[Meeplelowda]

the BGA claims it imposes fines for this kind of thing. I'm simply advocating for compliance with the rules.

What evidence have you presented that they did not do exactly what they said, which is consider the slowest player the loser for that game and calculate their lost AES based on losing to all other players in the game, and neutralizing AES changes for all other players? You haven't posted anything like: "hey, before the season ended this player had 1597 AES and they still did at the end of the season when they were supposed to lose points."

Thank you, I learned something from our conversation. At the same time, I still maintain that a player who, for whatever reason, spent a significant amount of time in a turn-based Arena game that didn't finish before the end of the season is unlikely to be penalized in any way, despite the BGA rules stating otherwise. In any case, if such a player is penalized, they'll likely be deducting league points for the completed season, meaning in most cases it's irrelevant and can only be called a penalty very loosely.

It seems you admit that they are being penalized, it's just your opinion that it isn't harsh enough. You're entitled to that opinion.

But it is a real penalty, because normally you can't be determined to be the loser of an Arena game if you don't run out of time and the game hasn't ended yet according to the rules. Just to be clear for those who didn't read the entire thread, this penalty applies even if your clock isn't in the negative at the end of the season. The penalty only affects the Arena rankings, however, which is proportional to the "crime."

[FrankJones]

But at the same time, there should be some measures in place to reduce the number of unfinished games.

There are already measures in place: 1) not letting turn-based games start near the end of the season in the first place and 2) not letting someone profit from not finishing them. That seems like a reasonable way to deal with this. No system is perfect. Just because it didn't work for your particular situation doesn't mean it's just completely ineffective.

What change would you make? Not letting games start 10 days before the end of the season? A month? A 100% karma penalty for the slowest player if the game doesn't finish?

First, reduce the turn time to 1 day. Keep 5 days for simple games. There should be a karma penalty—exactly what that is is debatable. Players who drag out games too much should not be allowed to participate in turn-based Arena games.

Don't join games with a 5-day timer per turn (I did not even realize such a setting existed).

A player who plays with this setting and stalls will lose a lot of arena points if the game is unfinished at the end of the season.

[FrankJones]

Or maybe because for some games you have to wait forever for a real-time game to start. There are some games for which I'd literally have to wait half an hour for a real-time game. I know, because I tried it once.

For my favorite arena game, I would often wait 24-48 HOURS for the game to start in real time. And this is a game that has 600+ games in progress at any time, and has been played 330k times.

So, I play Arena, even though it has real-time scoring disabled, which I find excruciating.

[FrankJones]

Firstly, I think 5 days per turn in Arena is too long.

Where do you get 5 days per turn? The slowest speed I know is 2 days per turn. You may have 5 days for some turn if you use your whole time bank, or a holiday joker, but you only get +2 days back each turn.

In any case, you can choose choose the speeds you do or do not want to play at in your per-game Arena settings (in the "old" lobby).

Yes. There are no "5-days per turn" game speed settings.

Maybe someone used multiple vacation jokers, which is perfectly allowed. We only get 4 a year, and maybe someone had to burn them all in one sequence. But that player would still be using the most clock, and would incur the penalty if the game is incomplete at arena season end.

I am not understanding the OP's problem.

[FrankJones]

Thank you, I learned something from our conversation. At the same time, I still maintain that a player who, for whatever reason, spent a significant amount of time in a turn-based Arena game that didn't finish before the end of the season is unlikely to be penalized in any way, despite the BGA rules stating otherwise. In any case, if such a player is penalized, they'll likely be deducting league points for the completed season, meaning in most cases it's irrelevant and can only be called a penalty very loosely.

Losing Arena points with a k-factor of 40 is a severe penalty with regard to the league standings. Especially since you seem to be asserting that people are gaming the ARENA system by doing this. They cannot game the arena system by doing this. Having unfinished games with the most time spent not making moves will result in a severe LOSS of arena points. That's the entire point. A person cannot dodge an arena loss by not moving, unless someone else has used even more clock and would therefore take the "loss".

[Meeplelowda]

I am not understanding the OP's problem.

The problem is that people aren't being incarcerated for stalling at the end of the season.

[Ceaseless]

After reading the comments, I noticed that people were focusing on the impossibility of determining whether a player was intentionally wasting time or under extraordinary circumstances that prevented them from taking a turn. My opinion is that such situations actually occur in about 1%. But that's not the point. Initially, I asked how BGA enforces its rule: if a turn-based Arena game isn't finished, a penalty is assessed to the player who spent the most time thinking. Let me clarify that the rules don't say anything about requiring proof that the time was wasted on purpose. On the contrary, the rules clearly state that the penalty is assessed in any case, automatically, without any investigation. People in the comments clearly couldn't agree on what these penalties are or how to verify that they were actually assessed. I'm starting to think that BGA is breaking its own rules - there are no penalties for unfinished turn-based Arena games for the player who spent the most time thinking about moves.

Why would the rules require proof that time was wasted on purpose to say that a player has lost the game? That's all that means. They aren't applying a karma penalty, and having one for this is obviously absurd. The responders aren't the ones confused here.

[FrankJones]

I am not understanding the OP's problem.

The problem is that people aren't being incarcerated for stalling at the end of the season.

Is this even a thing? Do people do this? As noted, the AES would be penalized.

Yes, the game would be converted to friendly mode, which I suppose means the staller could avoid the Elo loss, but at the consequence of AES points.

So, if the game is obviously going to be a loss anyway, and a loss of AES anyway, then I suppose this would be a way to game the Elo system by stalling, incurring the same AES penalty that would happen anyway but avoiding the Elo loss.

I have no good solution for that one.

But that did not seem to be the OP's actual concern.

I do think different games should have different cutoffs. But that's a lot of extra work. Perhaps the decisions could be made by the individual game developers and gurus.

I can play a game of fast turn-based Earth in one day, and almost always do. The game usually involves 8-10 turns.

other turn-based settings for other games can take weeks, so the 5-day cutoff is meaningless in those cases.

[Meeplelowda]

I am not understanding the OP's problem.

The problem is that people aren't being incarcerated for stalling at the end of the season.

Is this even a thing? Do people do this?

Yes. It is the entire reason this process was implemented. As quoted above:

This rule is in place to prevent dishonest players from stalling a game to avoid losing League Points just before the season concludes, particularly when they anticipate a loss.

That's BGA's language, not mine.

The OP's gripe is that this isn't enough of a penalty.