Raven card (1egg=2food) should B banned

[modsquad1]

Honesty there’s no point in even playing the game every time that card comes up. It’s ruining this game for me completely. There’s like a 0% win rate against that thing. Cannot stand it.

[Lumpia-Sushi]

It depends, honestly.

Sometimes it's a matter of skill as well.

I've seen novice players who get trapped with the "Raven-love" and still try to play Raven card even at Round 4...like what's the point? They only have 4 turns left, and in Round 4, we're supposed to be laying eggs instead of discarding eggs.

The only good exception is if the Raven card does help them fulfill bonus card requirement.

Btw yes, that player did end up losing the match because that Raven apparently did not help at all in gaining food that late in the game.

But yeah, for those who get Ravens in Round 1?

That's a winning card most of the time.

[Jellby]

That's why there's an option for playing without them...

[FrankJones]

A raven on the first round of turn 4 can still be a strong play. It can hit bonus cards and the end of round goal, and add 4 or 5 points depending on which raven it is. Maybe the player has one of the birds that discards a grain for 2 tucks. Or just wants to run the grassland engine a few times while getting 2 or 3 valuable food to play another big card with a difficult food cost, like the Atlantic Puffin.

[Ceaseless]

Honesty there’s no point in even playing the game every time that card comes up. It’s ruining this game for me completely. There’s like a 0% win rate against that thing. Cannot stand it.

It is banned.

It depends, honestly.

Sometimes it's a matter of skill as well.

I've seen novice players who get trapped with the "Raven-love" and still try to play Raven card even at Round 4...like what's the point? They only have 4 turns left, and in Round 4, we're supposed to be laying eggs instead of discarding eggs.

The only good exception is if the Raven card does help them fulfill bonus card requirement.

Btw yes, that player did end up losing the match because that Raven apparently did not help at all in gaining food that late in the game.

But yeah, for those who get Ravens in Round 1?

That's a winning card most of the time.

As far as discussions about banning a card go, the focus is on players that know the basics of the game. Beginner level play isn't much of a factor. Obviously if you play an amazing card in the worst possible way it isn't going to do very well.

[Bartissimo]

Honesty there’s no point in even playing the game every time that card comes up. It’s ruining this game for me completely. There’s like a 0% win rate against that thing. Cannot stand it.

It's your choice - your profile indicates you're a premium member, and so you are in full control of the settings of any game you host. Same with a choice of tournaments or Play tables set up by others - you can accept or decline once a match is presented to you, or a tournament opens for registration. Nothing you cannot handle. In the Arena, ravens and other powerful bird cards always excluded and the issue doesn't arise.

In support of the powerful bird cards: this is the original game as presented to the world by the designer, and I generally like going back to games in their original form without the later expansions, or as in this case, exclusions of a few overpowered cards. It simply means you play the game as initially conceived, warts and all. I agree this approach will produce unfair results in 2p or 3p games where only first place counts. In multiplayer tournament games with more players than just the winner progressing in the tournament (say, 4/5p games with only the last player eliminated), I am perfectly comfortable with ravens, Killdeer etc - sometimes you just count your blessings, or see that someone else has luck on their side for an easy transition to the next tournament round.

No need for any extra bans that come in addition to the Arena anti-raven/powerful bird settings. Just for selecting the game in the form you prefer, with or without ravens and their ilk.

[MartoTom]

Yes, ravens are overpowered. There is an option "Remove powerful birds" which exists for this exact reason - to purge them from the game.

[jonboyjr12]

Haha, especially in the Oceana expansion! That bird (and it's Chihuahuan cousin) are BEASTS!

[Maskonur]

With expansions (Asia & Oceania) grasses lose most of their Powers as Ravens.

[FrankJones]

With expansions (Asia & Oceania) grasses lose most of their Powers as Ravens.

This is a statement that has never matched my experience. If anything, it's the opposite.

The raven in the grassland allows a player to gain 23 nectar from the supply, even when none is available in the feeder. This player can gain eggs and 2 nectar in one turn, making it very easy to play birds, and gain an edge toward the 21 available nectar scoring points.

The explanations I have seen usually amount to, "yeah, but it's Harder to get eggs in Oceania". Is it? On the base game board, 4 birds are required in the grassland to lay 4 eggs without giving up a food. With the Oceania Mat, after playing 3 grassland birds, a player can lay 4 eggs without giving up any food. Yes, it requires surrendering 2 cards - but, that's not necessarily a big deal. Without the Oceania mat, extra cards at gam end are useless. And, with Oceania, gaining extra cards to convert to eggs (if needed) is not difficult. That was part of the rebalancing. It's easier to get cards.

People who say Eggs are harder to come by in Oceania are ignoring the number of eggs that need to be wasted with the base game mat because of needing to discard an egg to gain a card in the wetlands.

And, the starting nectar in Oceania makes it a lot easier to play the raven and one other bird and begin using the raven right away. This is impossible in the base game Unless starting with one of the rare birds that has no food cost.

After many plays of Oceania, we were content to remove the ravens.