Questions on differences between 2,3,4,5

[Fun Zaida Zale]

Three questions
1) What do people prefer 2,3,4, or 5 player games and why
2) What are your expected number of generations for a 2,3,4,5 player games?
3) I was looking at the winners statistics - Is there any practical values that different between 2, 3, 4, and 5 player games.

[utharlepreux]

maybe you can look here
https://www.tfmstats.com/
not all the answers but some very interesting data

[ArgyleUltor]

Generally, if a game goes past 10 generations, players who engine-build and play VP will tend to win.

At 2p, this is basically always, so 2p games are a bit boring. (Last 2p game was 189 to 85, mostly because I ended the game early to get to bed). For 3p+, if you have enough players who will switch to terraforming if it looks like there is a player with an engine building lead, the game gets more interesting. If you have enough players with that attitude, in theory, pure terraforming strategies probably dominate. And again, the game gets a bit boring.

So, assign players a score of 1 or 0.5, depending on their likelihood of terraforming when they don't have the top engine. Random BGA players are about 0.75. (honestly, maybe a bit lower).

I prefer games with a total score from 2.5 to 3.5. So, for random selection on BGA, 3-4p, with 5p sort of acceptable and 2p ==no. 2p might be better if the global selection phase happened twice in every generation. (Might be a nice option). For >400 elo players, I'd prefer 3p to 4p, but that seems rare enough that it is interesting anyways.

[Agbisweird]

I strongly prefer 2p, I think the data available aligns with this preference?

[Fun Zaida Zale]

What is the engine building thing?

And what do you mean by focusing on Terraforming

I try to get my points everywhere cities + greenery, raising my TR by doing everything I can
When I can, I choose cards with VP points.

So I am not sure of the subtlty of what you are saying

[FrankJones]

What is the engine building thing?

And what do you mean by focusing on Terraforming

I try to get my points everywhere cities + greenery, raising my TR by doing everything I can
When I can, I choose cards with VP points.

So I am not sure of the subtlty of what you are saying

Engine building means setting up a science tag strategy or a jovian scoring strategy or a card draw + discounts strategy, or something similar. You're not really focused on Terraforming, because you're racking up points and you want a longer generation game to cash in all your big cards, many of which have nothing to do with terraforming.

Focusing on Terraforming means ... well, focusing on terraforming. Producing heat and plants, prioritizing big space events (These are generally good cards even if you are engine building), getting oceans on the map in high-plant bonus areas and placing Greeneries (by standard project if necessary) in a path along the oceans (Not necessarily worried about placing them around cities), scoring points and gaining refunds, and going for a fast game that ends as quickly as possible before the engine builder can cash in.

[StrandedKnight]

I like 2-player games to avoid kingmaking and maximize the skill cap.

2p games tend to last 9-12 generations, though I've played games that lasted anywhere from 7 to 15 gens.

As mentioned, a fast game favors a terraforming/rush type of strategy where you score most of your points with TR and on the board, while a slower game favors an engine strategy where you score more points with VP on cards. The cutoff for this is typically between 10 and 11 generations.

The expected number of generations goes down as you add more players. In 5p, it's not uncommon for the game to end in 5-6 gens.

[Bogeyun]

Once you learn the game and play well enough - the average 2p game should end gen 10. (average is slightly higher than 10 I believe)

For newer players who play a lot more inefficiently and make more mistakes - you will find games regularly going gen 12+ and 'engine building cards' like AI central, science, and discounts will appear very strong and overpowered, but that's more because players are playing inefficiently. On tharsis map - terraforming strats are much stronger than engine on average, elysium is even more extreme, while hellas is a bit more balanced between the two strategies and favors more 'mid-range' approach (where you don't commit to full terraforming or engine)

Play whatever player number you enjoy, 2p games have the most complexity and are gonna be the least random and have the most skill expression, but it's not for everyone, and the newer you are 2p games will just feel like it's luck of the draw for whoever finds cards like Earth catapult and AI central even though it's not really the case