Three player arena

[kkirigiri]

I would have agreed with you if your point was simply that 4-players is clearly much more fun; I wish the gurus would get it together, we had 3-player arena two cycles ago already!

[swibat]

I wish I was not annoyed by all this, but sadly I am so I guess I'll answer again.

- 3p is excellent for competitive purpose and very fun for anyone who knows how it works. You cannot say that it's less fun than 4p or 5p as if it was an objective thing. I don't think 3p is perfect, but it's way more fun to me. You disagree, fine, but what does it change ?? I agree that the game changes a lot when you add players and the extended cards accordingly (not the other way around btw), but how can you say with NO ARGUMENT that it is for the better? I gave ones earlier. I'll add some more : every single economic choice has a lot of implications at 3p, when with more you just react at what happens sometimes. If you pay attention to why you win or lose at 4+p, it's like "oh yeah that happened oh well", where 3p it's like "ah she did that and that screwed me, oh I did that and it helped them, oh he did that and killed his chances". So much more room to improve, so much more rewards. That doesn't make any other player count bad. But to me they're less good. I play them for variety, though.

- Besides, if fun is your only goal, then what the heck are you doing in arena mode anyway? Arena is for confrontation with the best players (I don't know about you, but my rating is much higher when I stay away from arena : people play so much better out there in average!!), showing your skills, try to kill your opponents (which makes much more sense when everyone is a neighbor btw...), be stressed, having points at stake, loose ranking and be sad, or win some and be happy. That's precisely why 3p is so frequent in arena imo. You just want fun? Play normal games and please stop complaining! Different tastes, different modes. Nothing wrong with it.

- Side note: I would agree completely if you made the same complain about 7w duel, with only the vanilla version on arena for the whole year, even though expansions seem better suited for heavy competition (more balance, less randomness). But I don't complain. I just plan on going away from arena mode in 7w duel in the future. Quite simple, really.

[puzzlereed]

Bga why do this to is

[puzzlereed]

Bga why do this atrocity to the gamers on this platform.

[doctorchris]

there is only one new wonder, Carthage, which came with edifice but is compatible since it does nothing new. It's flexible, fun, and not too strong. There is no problem with it if you enjoy the game.

Having played a few more Arena games now, I agree, and thanks for the clarification.

I'm warming to 3 player, as it's probably the most strategic number of players as you say. 4 and 5 player both have their plus points too: Burying grey resources can work well in 4 player, and I would hate never to be able to play Ludus, which becomes available in 5 player.

I think 7 wonders does require a particular mindset. You're never going to win all the time, even against weaker players, there's too much randomness. So you need to aim for progress in the long term, minimizing your losses when the cards are against you, and maximizing your gains when you have the chance.

[Ratincage27]

I would have agreed with you if your point was simply that 4-players is clearly much more fun; I wish the gurus would get it together, we had 3-player arena two cycles ago already!

I think the logical implication of this opinion is that, as players become gurus by playing the game the most, there's something about playing the game a lot that causes players to become confused about which version of the game is most fun and/or that playing a lot somehow causes players to lose their memory such that they can't compare their enjoyment in the season they are currently playing (e.g., 5 players) versus the season with a different format (e.g., 3 players) a couple months ago.

It seems implausible that the group that plays the most has lost the clarity that allows other players to see that 4 player is "clearly" more fun.

Gurus tend to prefer 3 player because there is the least luck** involved. It's a matter or opinion if less luck makes the game more fun but disagreeing with the Gurus on a subjective determination (amount of fun) is unrelated doesn't support the idea that Gurus miss what is "clear," or should "get it together."

**This is supported by the evidence that the most successful players in a given season have higher season ratings (e.g., 40 players over 1750 to end last 3 player season versus 12 players over 1750 in last 5 player season) when the season is 3 players versus any other format. That's because more randomness/luck brings all scores closer to the mean and less randomness/luck increases the extent to which skill can differentiate players causing ratings more spread out from the mean in either direction.

[losbrugno]

Bga why do this atrocity to the gamers on this platform.

Well at this point I think you are just ragebating and clearly you are not willing to get others point of view. I think players in this discussion gave a lot of good insights and interesting points about what is more fun respect to what is more suitable for arena. Let me just say that 7w arena is supposed to be a semi-competitive ladder to a board game designed for families, and it's no suprise that generally draft luck affects more your chances of winning (getting first just to be clear) when more players are involved and so when more cards can be drafted, that means more randomness both in the card pool and in the players decision making on the other side of the board, in which you have little room to interfere with. 3p from this perspective is just better: on your second hand you already know where all cards are, you can play around bad draft luck more and generally bad matchups can be flipped around if you know where to play your chances, an easy example is to splash green when nobody is going for it even if you are Giza or Rhodos, just because the possibility of getting points age 3 is very limited and having 2-3 more cards available to play can be decisive.
You cannot win every game of 7 wonders, and especially in 3 players you need to know when you can win and when you should aim for p2, because in the long run that's what makes the difference between climbing and hoping to win.

[Ratincage27]

This ^ ^ ^

[puzzlereed]

Ok so I've been playing more three player games since arena is now three player but I feel like 4+ is more fun and offers more options for strat. But I guess I should also accept as a challenge and get used to it.

[CoreySteel]

I thought I was going to "hate" the 3p variant, but it has really grown on me. Very strategic and tough to play, and it's great.