Switzerland: Not allowed to choose to use locomotives vs color train cards

[Kaladry]

This was an implementation problem for this game before it was moved to the new map collection. The rules say:

Locomotive cards complement or replace the colored cards required to claim a Tunnel route, but they can never be used to help claim a regular (non-Tunnel) route.

For each card revealed whose color matches the color used to claim the Tunnel (including locomotives), an additional card of the same color (or a locomotive) must be played to successfully claim the Tunnel.

Therefore the player should be able to select any combination of colored train cards and locomotives to play for a tunnel route. And again for the further revealed cards.

The colored cards are more valuable here so forcing a player to use them for the revealed cards potentially messes up their gameplay if they were saving some for another route and now used them all when they expected to be able to use the locomotives for any extra cards. I've had to adapt my gameplay on this board in order to get around this issue. I shouldn't have to plan to claim a less important route first just because the tunnel route is going to eat my colored train cards when if I could use a combination of colored train cards and locomotives I'd be fine.

It is high time it gets addressed! There is an issue logged but the developer has called it Not a Bug, please vote for it and comment on it so we can play as we were meant to for this board without having to play through these constrictions.

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=192141

[thoun]

It was answered in this bug report : https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=192141

[ExaltedAngel]

It was answered in this bug report : https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=192141

I agree it's a wrong implementation: after the choice of the colour - let's say pink - one should be allowed to choose the desired amount of pink and locomotives to play. This is especially evident when you think that a different ruling would be impossibile to enforce when playing the physical version, since players are not required to show their hand to check if some pinks are remaining.

Coloured cards are not "more valuable" than locomotives, yet there are situations in which you need to save some of them for a later use.
Example: you have 5 yellow cards, 2 locos and 6 trains left. You want to clain a 4-length tunnel and a 1-length non-tunnel yellow route. With the proper rules you can claim the gallery with yellow and pay the extra (if any) with locos, so you trigger the end of the game and can claim the 1 in the last turn. With the current implementation you must play the 1 first, wasting a turn, because if you do the opposite and gallery has extra cost you'll not be able to claim the 1 afterwards instead. This specific situation has happened to me at least 2 times already.
(Btw this is true for 3 locos and 4 yellows too: you should be allowed to play the tunnel with 3+1 regardless)

[Knockando]

It was answered in this bug report : https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=192141

Sorry Thoun, I think you didn't understand well this point. I tried to explain you in the bug report

[Viator-e]

The new system fixes the problem, but it slows down the game quite a lot

[thoun]

There is no perfect solution, but if you click "use maximum of [color]", it's one more click if you enabled confirmations, and 2 more clicks if you didn't.

[old_TTR_aficionado]

First of all thank you thoun so much for adapting Switzerland and other maps, it’s great to have them online.
Sorry but when the recent "tunnel fix" is technically correct, it has made Switzerland painfully slow to play. In real games, almost everyone just uses colored cards first, the choice between color and locomotives is rarely needed. The old Asmodee TTR never forced that choice, and the new Marmalade TTR version handles it smoothly - you only get a choice (between color and loco) when paying extra after revealing tunnel cards.
The current implementation adds many unnecessary clicks for every tunnel, slowing down the game and making it frustrating to play. The approach used in Asmodee and Marmalade respects the rules, preserves strategy, and keeps gameplay fast.
Please consider reverting to this system or making the extra choice optional, right now the new implementation slows every tunnel unnecessarily and hurts the overall experience. Is it possible to make it optional?
Thank you anyway.

[ExaltedAngel]

Is it possible to make it optional?

Making it optional is a good suggestion, so who doesn't care can just turn it off and play like before, but I would NEVER. Even if I needed it as little as once in 5 games (and it's probably more often) I would still keep it enabled.

But I think I have a better idea: along with the "standard" choice of which cards to use to claim the route (coloured or locomotives) there could be a third option "advanced" where one could choose specific combinations like in this new update. This would make everyone happy I think

[DrakeStorm]

What happened to the tunnel interface? It was decent. Was it switched to an option and I don't see it?

[thoun]

You now have to choose "locomotive / color / custom..." when taking a tunnel. Locomotive and color will be the old behavior (quick, but not custom), and custom will show the popin to select the card distribution.