Is there a more toxic game than Spades?

[FrankJones]

This game brings out the absolute worst in people.


In my last game, my partner just tears into me at every opportunity, lecturing me on how to play, as though my top 15 Elo and 345 Elo indicate I don't know how to play ? As though his Elo being 15 points higher means he knows everything and I know nothing?

Really ??????

Takes credit for everything that goes right, yells at me anytime a hand ends up sub-optimal.

People like this should just be banned from the site.

Garbage should be placed in the garbage can.

[FrankJones]

I even generously said "well done partner" on a hand where he did nothing skillful, on a hand in which I bid a nil that required no help from him. But he could not say one positive thing.

One or both opponents noted in the chat that this player generally berates his partners.

What a freaking loser.

[Countes-Olivia-Manny]

It's nice to read that nothing changes in Spades!

There exists a contingent of players who maintain a belief in their superiority.
It is therefore not surprising that many proficient players have opted to discontinue their participation in this game.

[SirRhyno]

This is the people in general, and the internet. I’m not going to opine on your skill level, but people make rash judgments on limited information. When that happens, red thumb them, and move on. It’s not by any stretch unique to spades, but spades DOES have a high time commitment to a single result for a team game.

[Pirolito]

I was actually in that game you refer. Indeed, his behavior was not adequate, as it wasn't in other games I played with him. After that, I believe in the same day, I was his partner, after some lecturing I told him not to teach me how to play. He made fun of that remark after the game, but I also had domething to say.

Some players think there is only one correct way to play Spades and it's the way they play. Well, sometimes it goes wrong.

Even if someone doesn't play the best move we have to respect them, we get nothing out of shouting to people.

[FrankJones]

I was actually in that game you refer. Indeed, his behavior was not adequate, as it wasn't in other games I played with him. After that, I believe in the same day, I was his partner, after some lecturing I told him not to teach me how to play. He made fun of that remark after the game, but I also had domething to say.

Some players think there is only one correct way to play Spades and it's the way they play. Well, sometimes it goes wrong.

Even if someone doesn't play the best move we have to respect them, we get nothing out of shouting to people.

I remember 3 people at the table were polite, and one was not.

And, I had set the filter to 200 Elo and above. It just makes no sense for someone to get that snippy. I mean, in an 11 bid, I'm playing to make our bid and give 2 bags. Especially when I had already stretched my bid to even make it an 11 bid. I really cannot expect us to make a set in that situation. It would mean my partner underbid by 3, which ... well, why would I expect my partner to take +3 over his bid in a game among 4 players rated in the 200s and 300s?

I understand that maybe some people do that as a strategy - but it's not my style. If I think the opponent may have overbid, and I want to make the set, I make it a 12 bid so there is no doubt. And then let the chips fall where they may.

Consistently underbidding in an 11 bid to make a surprise set just seems like a questionable strategy to me, especially since it is going to confuse the partner.

[azcats2002]

The reason Spades is "toxic" is because unlike other games, Spades requires a partner.

In most games it is 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 and if someone is a weaker player it doesnt matter.

in Spades, many of the arena players do not play with the fundamentals of the game.

so you will often have a stronger more expert player teamed with a weaker novice player.
And often the weaker player believes that the game is mostly luck and that they are not doing anything wrong.

however, there are a lots of fundamental rules and some expert techniques that are in play.

it can be frustrating when the weaker player does not listen to the stronger player which can be seen by the win ratio.

so, then arguments happen.

now it gets funny when the weaker player tries to tell the stronger player how to play that become a whole different thing.

Frank, unfortunately i disagree with you. unless, it is near the end of the game. you should always be looking to set on 11 bid. Often the difference between an 11 bid and a 12 bid is someone losing a King or an ace.. if you go for the set, 3 things happen. 1. you might set the opps. 2. you will not get set yourself. 3. most times the bags are split anyway, so trying to avoid bags is inconsequential.

basically, you should only avoid bags on 11 bid when it is clear no one can get set.

players like me, will often notice when one player is playing to avoid bags.. we will begin not trumping and tossing off suits and letting our p win with low cards....and then we can trump the opp's partner on an A or K they were counting on. it happens a lot of the time.

it happened yesterday. The opp said "i saw you tossing so i didnt trump" but their p was just tossing cause they knew their partner had the ability to trump. so no one trumps and the set is in.

[FrankJones]

Frank, unfortunately i disagree with you. unless, it is near the end of the game. you should always be looking to set on 11 bid. Often the difference between an 11 bid and a 12 bid is someone losing a King or an ace.. if you go for the set, 3 things happen. 1. you might set the opps. 2. you will not get set yourself. 3. most times the bags are split anyway, so trying to avoid bags is inconsequential.

basically, you should only avoid bags on 11 bid when it is clear no one can get set.

players like me, will often notice when one player is playing to avoid bags.. we will begin not trumping and tossing off suits and letting our p win with low cards....and then we can trump the opp's partner on an A or K they were counting on. it happens a lot of the time.

it happened yesterday. The opp said "i saw you tossing so i didnt trump" but their p was just tossing cause they knew their partner had the ability to trump. so no one trumps and the set is in.

I don't disagree with you.

But there's also context. Did I reach to make it an 11 bid? If so, I need to ask myself whether a set is feasible. Because to set the 11 bid, I need to make mine, and my parter needs 3 more. Then I consider the bids of the other players and I examine which cards they play. It's not always possible to set an 11 bid, and part of the skill is recognizing those instances to avoid taking needless bags going for a hopeless set.

I'm sure you know all this. We have similar ratings. I was recently as high as 378. Anyone who says "Always go for sets on 11 bids no matter what" is going to misplay some hands and take needles bags.

If none of the information available suggests a possibility of a set, it's likely not correct to go for it.

[azcats2002]

One thing to consider…

If you dont go for the set or take a trick that is available, you risk getting your p set.

So it is just as much about not getting set as it is for going the set.

Generally, you should almost always be going for the 11 bid set to make sure your own team isnt set…

It isnt until the last few cards before you can a full adjustment.

As i might have.mentioned. I often set opps when one opp ducks and says “i saw you play off so i didnt take the trick…”
Always better to risk the 1 or 2 bags to avoid being set.

[FrankJones]

This is not a problem I encounter. Obviously, if I see my partner lose a trick that was expected to win, I realize I need to go into "take tricks" mode because at that point, it can be treated as a 12 bid.

Not to beat a dead horse, but that wasn't the case in the occurrence I described. Sometimes it's obvious both sides are going to make the bid. Coming out guns blazing in every 11 bid is one way to do things, but it's not the only way.