negative environment in Hanabi

[ShassDow]

Yup, I recently started playing Hanabi against random people again because my friends don't really like the game that much.
Had I wanted to give BGA Hanabi players (yes I'm making a gross, as in big, generalisation) the benefit of the doubt, I've had to red thumb more people than I did these last few months.
Mistakes can, do, and WILL happen regardless. If you want to give constructive feedback there is a certain way to do it, using "?" or "???" as passive-agressive so that you don't get flagged to the mods mostly will get you the same reaction as the ones that start being nasty or bombing: red thumb.

[Ant Stewart]

I think with the internet it is very easy to read offence where none is intended.

If in real life a clue is given that makes no sense, unless you are playing with poker players their facial expression will show that and they will react, likely via a facial expression.

In Hanabi the "?" in chat means the same, your move surprised/confused me.

It may be that the move was a mistake, or it may be that they don't have the context to see why such a surprising move was given. It just means the person writing it thought "huh?".

And if you mess up, and someone says "?", then you get annoyed with them I think something is a bit backwards here. In general a "?" can usually be answered with one of:

1. Oops sorry
2. It will make sense in a couple of turns.
3. It was the best option :/
4. I had to because...

There is no need for any aggression to enter the chat, or to be read into any message - it's simply a reaction of surprise followed by some polite dialogue.

What does tend to to cause issues is people who mess up and then refuse to discuss it at all.
Especially at expert level and below, it is important to know whether you just make a mistake, or are you not familiar with a part of the convention which resulted in you not knowing the outcome of your action. Yes this could be typed out but a question mark meaning "that surprised me" is usually enough to prompt an explanation.

[Silene]

...

when you want a friendly and polite exchange, please start with friendly and polite words.

please don't do an artificial facial expression ("?" does not transport your friendly intentions) and expect the other player to start a friendly exchange from there.

mistakes are part of the game on all levels. deciding if it was one and how to handle it is decisions to be made by each player and i appreciate when nobody interferes with that.

i do admit i sometimes write "oops" or "mb" which i probably should not. but i don't do that when somebody prompts me with a "?".

imo best response to "?" is "÷". or "&". "~" is also reasonable.

[Jellby]

If in real life a clue is given that makes no sense, unless you are playing with poker players their facial expression will show that and they will react, likely via a facial expression.

In Hanabi the "?" in chat means the same, your move surprised/confused me.

In real life, reacting facial expressions are usually unavoidable. In BGA, writing "?" is clearly intentional, not an involuntary reaction. It is (in my opinion) both disrespectful (if my move surprised you, maybe I made a mistake, or maybe I did it for a reason) and on the cheat side (you don't need to tell everyone that you expected something else). And worse yet: it will often trigger a chat exchange that will result in more distractions, mistakes, heated arguments, etc. As soon as I see a move-related comment in the chat, I disable it (with a custom css), so I avoid this last effect on my side at least.

[CloudTemplR]

I think with the internet it is very easy to read offence where none is intended.

If in real life a clue is given that makes no sense, unless you are playing with poker players their facial expression will show that and they will react, likely via a facial expression.

In Hanabi the "?" in chat means the same, your move surprised/confused me.

????

[Ant Stewart]

I think the point above was missed slightly.

When you read "?" - whether you find that passive aggressive or not is an assumption of intent on your part.

So my suggestion is start with good assumptions that there is no aggression (passive or otherwise) intended.

I have very rarely seen a situation where a "?" followed by "oops, mb" ended up in a negative interaction.

I have often seen someone mess up, not bother apologising, and then end up arguing with another player.

I have also found that if misfire or cause a misfire and don't know why - whoever typed "?" is usually also willing to explain what I did wrong and where I misunderstood the convention.

tl;dr - if someone messages a "?", it's your choice whether you keep the conversation polite or escalate.

[Jellby]

And my point is that by writing "?" (also by writing "oops, mb") you are giving some information that you should not be giving, regardless of how I take it.

[CloudTemplR]

I think the point above was missed slightly.

When you read "?" - whether you find that passive aggressive or not is an assumption of intent on your part.

?

[papasamosa]

I've come across both friendly & helpful AND unfriendly players in Hanabi. I've red thumbed the ones that were unfriendly and rude. In 1 particular game, I was so taken aback by another player's tone and behaviour that I had to abandon the game and take a hit to my ELO. I was (and still am) a beginner at the game, so making mistakes, big and small, is part of the process. But that experience left a sour taste and I've not played for quite a while.

I've found a similar level of intolerance in games like The Crew, and I fully expect other co-op games bring out this type of bad behaviour. It does make me wonder if they are like this in person. If they are, they must be insufferable.

The physical versions of these games are still in my wishlist, so I will play them with people I know, who I know won't behave like this.

[RaineyStorm]

Glad im not the only one with this experience. Ive been on BGA for years and never seen such a systemically egocentric biased and toxic game environment. I tried letting people know im a beginner and still would get called an idiot or stupid for not playing an ideal move and choosing to play it safe (not even a mistake, still winning games with 25 points). Such a shame. Like its coop and fun, why you gotta be so hostile people?