experts and masters tell me about the games you mastered

[ahyangyi]

I also like white castle on bga but i haven't gone deep in it

but i am interested to know what's wrong with a meta? in any replayable strategic game, there are better and worse strategies that often change depending on circumstances and/or counterable to a degree, a meta is simply the players figuring out the best strategies for each circumstance and their counters the, in the board game space i think most games can have a meta and people either didn't figure it out yet or have figured it out and enjoy it

It's fine. The line between a "meta" and a "theme" is weirdly blurry.

I've heard people complaining about a game, say, Agricola, because 90% of the time you have to build a little of everything and go for extending your family, hence not much strategic diversity.

But for me it's just the theme: the plague hit the land, everything went down. So you are restoring things, you want to build a little of everything and you want to grow your family, something that makes perfect sense to me about a feudal-era farming house.

And a more obvious (and somewhat unfortunate) example is auction games. Unfortunately these games are really only playable *after* everyone learns the meta. Hence very hard to get into.

That said, what I wanted to say was that, for many games, its charm lies between the feeling that you can learn the meta, and the time you actually find it. So it's a good idea to make it hard to find. It extends the charm and keeps the freshness.

[pahakuukkeli]

I'm a master in only one game and, funnily enough, I think it’s only my 3rd best game.

Azul: I reached master last month. Lots of thanks goes to people who make (or have made) good strategy videos or just stream high-level play (Priptonite, sorryimlikethis, Alexey, etc.). There’s no way I could have reached 700 ELO in under 300 games without their contribution.

For some reason, in Azul I feel like I’m learning a lot by watching other people play. Part of it is the fact that I play almost exclusively turn-based games, so my own game count remains quite low.

Azul has a very high skill cap, so losing to beginners (or people who are just stuck in the 100-200 ELO range) is extremely rare. On the other hand, there are players who would probably beat me practically every time. Despite being a master, I don’t feel like I’m super-good at the game, honestly.
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It’s a Wonderful World: I’ve been in and out of the top-10 for the last year or so with 600+ ELO. Unlike Azul, I feel like I have a decent chance against anyone in IAWW (there are few players who surely have an advantage, but I don’t consider anyone unbeatable).

IAWW was one of the first games I started playing here. I found the game from sorryimlikethis’ stream and learned the basics from his videos. After that, it’s been part experimentation and part watching game replays from top players. The game has become very different after becoming good enough to move from basics. There is a meta at the top, sort of, but a big part of that meta is flexibility so it’s not really meta in the strict sense of the word.

IAWW has more luck than Azul, but losing to low ELO players is still extremely rare. A mid-level player with luck on their side can make a hard match. Most of the time the answers are still available, but there’s been a handful of games that felt unwinnable. Winning high-level games needs a lot of thinking and calculating different scenarios (it’s not uncommon for me to use several hours to contemplate my turn).
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Harmonies: Another game where I’ve been in and out of the top-10 with 600+ ELO. Also, like in IAWW, I feel like I have a chance to beat anyone in this game.

I’m not aware of any good guides for this game, so unlike the two previous ones, this I have learned on my own (I saw sorryimlikethis play this on stream and played my first games in his community tournament).

For quite a while I kept pretty meticulous records of my games to better understand the value of different animals. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that I’ve spent more time writing down my game logs and doing Python scripts to calculate all sorts of numerical values from that data than I’ve actually played the game.

It’s probably just my thing, but I do often spend ludicrous time planning my moves in Harmonies, too. I have a picture of multiple boards and I plan my moves in Paint. Again, some people may be able to do that in their heads, but I like to take advantage of the time available in turn-based games.

Harmonies probably has a comparable luck-factor to IAWW. Especially with spirits there can be unwinnable games, but that’s usually true only against mid-level or better opponents (low-level players don’t tend to recognize their position).
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So, in my experience, I’d say that commitment and willingness to study the game is required to reach high ratings. Some (maybe even most) of the study can be replaced by sheer volume (something I, as a turn-based player, can’t really do). Having general interest in games (games as in sets of mechanics and rules, not the social interaction of gaming) and an analytical mindset is a huge bonus.

[RazorOz]

I'm a master in only one game and, funnily enough, I think it’s only my 3rd best game.

Part of that depends how you judge things though, BGA's Master tag is given to anyone > 700 ELO. In a game like Azul there are many masters because the skill ceiling is sky high. At the time of writing there are 105 players currently > 700 ELO alone, which I wouldn't be surprised if that's the highest number for any game on the site. It's a Wonderful World and Harmonies have higher luck factor/not as much strategic depth as Azul so there's far fewer Masters, so what you say can still be true relatively, if it's harder to be 600+ at those games than 700+ at Azul.

[Romain672]

Be careful with that because the highest elo depend mainly of popularity, skill involved, and if cheating is possible (third one usually it's no in 98+% of games).
And looking at the most popular game, I didn't find any game which got more game played than Azul.

I know that Azul is a skilled game, but you can't use the elo to said it's harder to reach master on it (it seem to me that it would be slightly easier, but since it's popular, you got lots of ressources available, and so need to use them), or to said it's extremely skilled.

[ChiefPointThief]

Caravan - Only person to reach Master
Sobek 2p - Only person to reach 600
Captain Flip - 1st to reach expert

All awesome games! Try them
Captain flip very luck based (on a losing streak ) but some new boards have been added that have a little more depth to them. Havent tried enough to determine if it lowers luck factor at all (but still wouldn’t be that much)

Sobek 2p. Randomness. Character tiles are face down. Can be one of several. Some more powerful than others. Pirouges are face down until your 1st set. Can be any 5 of several. Corruption random for special tiles 1-6. Would still probably beat players below strong at a high rate.

[BananaHarambe]

Background

Rank 1 Vale of Eternity player here with top performance across Arena (when I try), Tournaments, and general Elo for a ~1 year period.

I had a pretty strong baseline before BGA by playing 2p IRL with a fellow competitive gamer, TCG player. Was in the 300-350 Elo range during the early rating adjustment period.

I would befriend my high rated opponents after playing against them to discuss the game we just played and general strategy/card evaluation. I was a tryhard that analyzed my losses for mistakes and looked for adjustments (I still am, but I was back then too). By learning from every mistake early on I was able to reduce my mistakes quite a bit which took me to the 450-500 Elo range along with other top players. I work in STEM which seems to be a common trend among many of the top players, high analytical thinking combined with the drive to compete.

What took me to the next level to the 500+ Elo range and beyond to record setting Elo (600+) strength was all the external work put into the game. I often joke that it takes writing an entire strategy wiki website to truly reach rank 1 in a game because that is what happened. The more I would write in detail about the game the better I would get. Thinking deeply about the game and clearly articulating your thoughts will improve your gameplay, often at a higher rate than just playing. The same is true in games like Chess where playing can only take you so far. Studying helps compliment playing.

I created https://valeofeternity.wiki.gg/ and have written over 80% of the content on the website. The biggest value on the site is the card image galleries since there is no other convenient source online and no built in tool in BGA like there is in Zenith for some reason. Look up any cards I list here if you are curious.

General Advice

Vale of Eternity is pretty deep so to get good at it you would need to know the game very well from many repetitions and develop your own optimization system that gets calibrated over time. It is an open drafting game so most of the skill is from card evaluation and picking the right cards with both players in mind. Learn all the main combos and synergies, then develop a baseline evaluation for each card across various stage of the game and a system to adjust the card evaluations for both players based on the board state and make all your card choices with these adjustments in mind.

More specifically I'm sure I evaluate and use the universally strong cards like Undine Queen, Valkyrie, Freyja, and Eternity similarly to other players. Not much to optimize there, the cards are easy to use and quite strong over 80% of the time. The biggest difference in play style is how myself and other strong players are able to fully utilize the full 70 card deck, even the weaker cards when the opportunities arise. Since we can utilize a higher percentage of the deck effectively we can "make lemonade" (a winning game plan) consistently with less reliance on lucky "flips" or draws compared to more average players.

The most generic Vale of Eternity example I can think of is that the expert player will tame (hold onto) a variety of scoring cards in the early to mid game even if they seem fairly mediocre (average baseline, low synergy) because they understand the value of holding cards early for the potential for combos/synergy even if they never show up and also understand the game is fundamentally about points and you need to draft point scoring to win. Many average players will oversell potential scoring cards earlier on, make a fantastic stone economy, then fail to acquire enough scoring to reach 60 points by Round 8 (a requirement to be "good" at Vale because they were praying the RNG gods for the perfect scoring cards to arrive at the perfect moment for them in the late game rather than picking it up earlier and holding onto it.

The expert player likely leans more towards stockpiling points and will often accumulate 60 points or close by Round 6, then will spend the remaining of the game figuring how to execute that winning 60+ point game plan ASAP by sequencing summons and selling in the late game or looking for ways to improve their scoring position or find opportunities to completely cripple an opponent by first picking (blocking) a key card. Expert players are generally less affected by blocks since they create more consistent game plans that are less reliant on specific key cards. An average player might be relying on one of 3-4 cards remaining for them to first pick in the late game to secure a winning score, but an expert player is looking for one of 8+ cards remaining for a win.

More Specific Example

Examples of high scoring cards the expert players will onto more often average players to "hold points" include Tidal, Rock Golem, Rudra, and Aeris. An average player will often 2nd/3rd pick Tidal (5 cost dragon instant, score 5 point per dragon in your area/summoned) in the early game, but sell it rather than tame it to help their stone economy in the early game, but without having a way to get immediate value from the sell like an early Troll or Valkyrie to earn points every round off the sell. Without a real reason to sell Tidal already in your hand it will often be better to just hold onto (tame) Tidal instead. Tidal has a pretty high ceiling, it is quite busted with other dragons.

The average player thought process may be close to "this Tidal is only worth 5 points right now and I don't have any Dragons yet so I might as well sell it" and they do this with Tidal often enough that they hardly ever get to use the card. They only get to use it when the stars align perfectly with dragons already in their area and they have a chance to first pick it because opponents would surely block a scary late game Tidal and at least get sell value from it.

The expert player thought process would be closer to "this Tidal is only worth 5 points right now, but if I tame it every dragon is worth 5 more points. All I need to make Tidal playable is 1 more Dragon so it scores 10 points. A 15+ point Tidal would be devastating and Tidal gives me further combo potential with Scorch/Aeris/Willow. I already have Undine for stone generation so don't need to sell a dragon."

Many strong scoring combos in Vale are quite unlikely to naturally pull off for a player unwilling to hold onto specific key cards in the early game.

[ChiefPointThief]

Cool you took the game to another level. I remember when it 1st came out the highest ranked players were in the 300s. Do you only play 2p?

[BananaHarambe]

Cool you took the game to another level. I remember when it 1st came out the highest ranked players were in the 300s. Do you only play 2p?

Hi I will gladly play 3p or 4p Vale for fun in person when the situation arises. I like 2p for online play and have more opportunities to play Vale in 2p IRL.

Vale has 2 expansions released, but not on BGA so there is still enjoyment playing it IRL with new stuff.

[Andrei3009]

I'll tell you about my experience in clash of decks [base game only]

I found out about this game in the local university club and I liked it right away. After a while, I decided to play on bga out of a fan, and I lost 6 games out of 7, and the desire to start winning ignited in me, I began to play carefully and analyze the draft, and after that I never lost at the club, but there were not very strong opponents.
At the end of August, I asked the current top 1 player to play a few friendly games with me and analyzed some parts of the drafts in these games [for which I thank him a lot]. Surprisingly, I won 3 out of 4 games, after that I decided to play for the rating and in 14 games I got to 400 elo. After a two-month break due to bga technical work in this game, I started playing the arena and in a few weeks I got a gap of 200+ arena points, as well as 150 elo from the second place. The main reason for this rapid growth was my many years of experience in Russian draughts, which allows me to outplay my opponents in second faze, and my approach to turn-based games in general - I understand each game thoroughly and from many angles, which allows me to learn very quickly and not make mistakes twice. Right now, my goal is to reach 700 elo, which is very difficult due to the large gap from the rest.

The game consists of two phases: the draft, where each player builds a deck of 8 cards, and the actual battle of these decks.

The draft is very important and more than half of the games i knew that i will win before the start of the second phase. General Draft Tips:

1) Be aware for the average cost of a deck, having more than two cards more expensive than 5 is very bad, and ideally you shouldn't have more than two cards expensive than 4

2) you need to have several cheap cards that allow you to quickly cycle through the deck and always have the necessary cards available. The cards for 1 are especially strong, and you need a very good reason not to take them. If you are a beginner, it is a good idea to take them as soon as possible.
3) During the draft, you need to determine the opponent's cards with which he will deal damage on you and try to draft the answer to them. The opposite is also true - you need to have at least two cards that will deal damage. These are usually inexpensive cards with 3+ damage and a vortex.

4) Do not be too afraid of cards that can kill several creatures at a time, they are easy to play around them, as in the draft by taking cards with a shield \ magic shield \ with great health, as well as during the game itself by correctly distributing the cards along the lines. If you can't to play around your opponent's card, you can put yourself under it and completely ignore this line until the end

5) Do not take too many spells, as they do not increase your presence on the table.

6) Know the approximate strength of the cards, for this I posted an approximate playlist a few months ago. In the beginning, you can follow him, but then it would be good to think about why he is like that . I note that it is not completely objective and may vary slightly depending on your playing style.

Now a little bit about the second phase of the game:

0) when playing the cards, it would be good to see how easy it will be to kill them. If the opponent spends much less mana on this than you, it's better to look for another move or follow the principle of 4 from the previous list.

1) Your first move is very important because it sets the pace of the whole game. If you go first, put as much damage as possible, preferably 6+, [Ideally you need to plan what you will do in case of the first move during the draft] In the case of the second player, follow principle 0.

2) Don't be afraid to take damage until it destroys your fort/bastion. In most cases, players play on different lines and the first player to break the bastion / fort wins, so first of all you need to try to put enough damage to the opponent's bastion faster and only if it is impossible to try to kill his cards.

3) try to remember the order of the opponent's cards played and always know what he can and cannot play on the next move (or more moves if you can calculate it). Even one move is enough to significantly increase your win rate.