2 player ELO level separation

[dmpr0]

pretty sure many of us have met Master level players who have achieved it playing 2p games, but play 3+ player games at Strong level at best - in this case level filter for tables is useless. the easiest solution I can think of is to split hanabi into 2 different games: Hanabi 2p and Hanabi 3+p. what do you think about this? maybe something else could be done to mitigate this issue

[Blacktango]

Hello, as far as I know, this is not possible given how BGA works.
There is only one ELO queue per game. Implementing such a feature would require the game to be duplicated, resulting in two different entries in the game list.
This would undoubtedly cause a great deal of confusion for players.

[Jellby]

And then there should be separate ELO for 3-player and for 4-5, and for avalanche or not, and for flams or not...

[dmpr0]

The difference between 3p and and 4-5p is minor, while 2p is indeed a separate game with different conventions - arguably finesse, layered finesse etc make little sense for it. They save 2s. They have special rules to avoid double discard and so on. So yes, I'd prefer to see 2 different game entries in the games list: Hanabi Duet and Hanabi Party. But that's just me

[BusError]

Probably they should just get rid of ELO and show number of games played by table size / variant. Hanab.live does this and it makes a lot more sense.

@Blacktango: I get that this would break their model either way. Fortunately they have some programmers

[HanabiGrandMaster]

I think this discussion belongs here:
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41776

It died, but your complaint shows it's still relevant.

The major concerns regarding ELO:
- Black Powder doesn't affect ELO at all, even though it makes the game more challenging.
- Number of players affects ELO greatly, while that's hardly a factor compared to number of colours and number of hand-cards.
- Since almost all variants should get perfect score >90% of the time, non-perfect scores shouldn't be rewarded.

I don't know how to lobby harder with the powers that be to get this change implemented.

[dmpr0]

my issue is not with ELO itself, but with different conventions of 2p and 3+p variants: e.g. 2p Masters bombing reverse finesses, ignoring layers etc - they simply don't have such concepts and are not used to it. Happened too many times already.

[ExaltedAngel]

Unfortunately this is true for so many games, but the current system has no way to handle a solution. And I don't think BGA cares enough to change it and find one that works

[dmpr0]

Let me paraphrase the topic of this conversation:
Doea the esteemed bga community belie that the conventions of 2p and 3+p versions differ enough that a Master 2player cannot demonstrate the expected level of cooperation? And similarly, a Master 3+player cannot follow the existing 2p conventions?

And the resulting question is, therefore: should there be 2 separate Hanabi instances on bga: Hanabi Duet and Hanabi Party (naming is of course merely suggestive) - to eliminate inconsistent Elo and game variant skill level

[Andrei3009]

my issue is not with ELO itself, but with different conventions of 2p and 3+p variants: e.g. 2p Masters bombing reverse finesses, ignoring layers etc - they simply don't have such concepts and are not used to it. Happened too many times already.

I am not familiar with the bga community of this game,could you tell me what do the "finesses" "reverse finesses" "layers " terms mean?