How to report cheater ?

[euklid314]

Should be but isn't quite. There are known bugs that can be exploited. And yet unknown ones, if you happen to stumble across them. That happened to me recently.

If the game has a bug then you should not report a player profiting from the bug as a cheater but you should report the bug to the game developer.

The term "cheater" is not applicable in this case...

If they knew what they were doing, you should report both the bug and the cheater.

I mean, how could they not know? They can see that the points they earned are not what they should be. So they would be willingly benefiting from the bug, throwing it under the rug so to speak, which is cheating.

It's like if you are playing chess, and your opponent accidentally moves a piece in a way that benefits you, and you say nothing and just let the game go on. That would be cheating by omission.

In Blitz chess and Backgammon, if your opponent makes an illegal move this move counts, even if it was not according to the game rules. As an opponent, you can play on as it stands. But obviously you can stop the clock and make your opponent redo the move in a legal matter.

Especially in Blitz chess illegal moves usually happen without intent - even to top grandmasters. And not always their opponent will notice the mistake and they will just play on.

On BGA there are so many instances that you just trust that BGA will count the points correctly for you. If you get added or subtracted a point by a BGA bug you will usually not notice it (ofc depending on the game and the game situation). Thus, there is usually no way to know if the opponent were "knowing what they were doing" when a bug happened. On BGA it is not possible to report a player because they exploited a game bug - and that is a good feature!

[Meeplelowda]

On BGA it is not possible to report a player because they exploited a game bug

Exploiting a known bug is an explicit category in the the reporting funnel. (obviously I did not submit that report)

But it has to be a known bug. If you can't link to a specific existing bug report it tells you to report the bug, not the player.

[euklid314]

On BGA it is not possible to report a player because they exploited a game bug

Exploiting a known bug is an explicit category in the the reporting funnel. (obviously I did not submit that report)

But it has to be a known bug. If you can't link to a specific existing bug report it tells you to report the bug, not the player.

I did remember that differently. I thought that you were always told to report the bug, not the player. But you are correct: If it is a known bug (and you can link to it in the bug reporting system) then it seems to be possible to report a player for exploiting the bug.

Learned something new, thank you, Meeple!

[tbhp]

Especially in Blitz chess illegal moves usually happen without intent - even to top grandmasters. And not always their opponent will notice the mistake and they will just play on.

So what happens if the game ends in checkmate? Do we consider the checkmate valid even though the game state is incoherent?

[euklid314]

Especially in Blitz chess illegal moves usually happen without intent - even to top grandmasters. And not always their opponent will notice the mistake and they will just play on.

So what happens if the game ends in checkmate? Do we consider the checkmate valid even though the game state is incoherent?

With an illegal move I meant moving e.g. a piece to a square that it cannot move to according to chess rules or moving 2 pieces simultaneously (because a player accidentally pushes one piece while making a legal move with another piece) or throwing pieces over and resetting them on the wrong spots. All that can and does happen in Blitz games. If one of the next moves is a checkmate then it stands.

In Backgammon it can always happen that you miscount the pips and you put your checkers on a wrong spot. There are different rule sets covering this case but the standard rule is that after an illegal move the opponent can choose to play on as it stands or he can force you to take back the illegal move and replace it by a legal move.

Of course, if you notice that an illegal move has happened then fair play tells you that you should point it out to your opponent. But if you do not notice it then the game continues. And this is very much allowed by the rules.

[FrankJones]

The reference (in this thread) to the BGA rules prohibiting players from exploiting a "known bug" is a gray area. The grayest of gray.

What exactly constitutes a "known bug"? Many players do not read the bug reports. What if a bug is made known to the developer, but fixing it takes time and the repair is put on the back burner for a few weeks or longer? There is no way of knowing which players are aware of the bug and which [payers are not.

Suppose, hypothetically, the developer then says the bug is not a gem-breaking bug because all players have an equal opportunity to use the bug, therefore nobody gains an advantage?

[Arjuna92]

The reference (in this thread) to the BGA rules prohibiting players from exploiting a "known bug" is a gray area. The grayest of gray.

What exactly constitutes a "known bug"? Many players do not read the bug reports. What if a bug is made known to the developer, but fixing it takes time and the repair is put on the back burner for a few weeks or longer? There is no way of knowing which players are aware of the bug and which [payers are not.

Suppose, hypothetically, the developer then says the bug is not a gem-breaking bug because all players have an equal opportunity to use the bug, therefore nobody gains an advantage?

I think you could look at the player's familiarity with the game, as well as how obviously what they're doing is against the rules.

If the dev decides not to fix the bug, then the rules on BGA simply diverge from the ones used otherwise and that should be publicised as such. Of course, the game might be inferior (or for that matter superior) with the modified ruleset

[FrankJones]

It's not obvious at all, which is the problem. And it could easily swing the outcome of a game.

If one player is aware of the bug and one isn't, but the player aware of the bug assumes everyone else is aware, that's a problem.

I'm very experienced with the game but I was unaware until an opponent made what usually be an obviously terrible play (throwing away points for no benefit), and I said to myself, "Why would my opponent make such an obviously bad play?"

Upon reviewing things, I then discovered the bug, which made the play (which usually would be an illegal play if not for the big) into a gain instead of a loss.

Now I'm not sure what to do in any given situation. What if someone uses the bug and it costs me the game?

The only way anyone would know the play should not be allowed is if that person carefully read the physical rulebook. There is nothing in the game interface itself that makes it obvious the play should not be allowed.

[tbhp]

Especially in Blitz chess illegal moves usually happen without intent - even to top grandmasters. And not always their opponent will notice the mistake and they will just play on.

So what happens if the game ends in checkmate? Do we consider the checkmate valid even though the game state is incoherent?

With an illegal move I meant moving e.g. a piece to a square that it cannot move to according to chess rules or moving 2 pieces simultaneously (because a player accidentally pushes one piece while making a legal move with another piece) or throwing pieces over and resetting them on the wrong spots. All that can and does happen in Blitz games. If one of the next moves is a checkmate then it stands.

Maybe I should rephrase then. It's not that the game state would necessarily be incoherent, it's that the way to get there would involve an illegal move. That doesn't seem like a valid way to conclude a game through checkmate.

On the other hand, if the game ends by time running out, then the idea of counting the win as valid makes a bit more sense to me, since this is a winning metric that is unrelated to the board itself.

This is my take on Chess anyway. I don't play Backgammon, so I'm not sure what my opinion on that would be.

[tbhp]

Suppose, hypothetically, the developer then says the bug is not a gem-breaking bug because all players have an equal opportunity to use the bug, therefore nobody gains an advantage?

That would be a pretty weird take on their part. Everyone has an equal opportunity to cheat. That doesn't mean cheating is right.