The long slow tournaments (Heat example)

[arrie1987]

https://bga.li/tournament/528721

This is just one example of a tournament I see for a game i play a lot, Heat (There are a lot more same tournaments setup for other games too).
It is a Swiss tournament of 20 rounds and then again 20 rounds. It is not 1 race, it is a championship of 4 races.
There is a duration of the new max of 90 days (what is nice for a championship of Heat).

But what my concern is about these kinds of tournaments is that the maker of this tournament, has clearly no idea what he is setting up for this game.
For short games 40 rounds of Swiss can be already a lot, but can be ok, but for Heat, this will be taking years and years.
People need to read the settings for what thwy register, yes indeed, but people creating tournaments must understand what they are creating, and this tournamenttype (ALl the Long SLow Tournaments) has the most crazy settings.

Because people won't show up at some point because the tournament takes to long, or they stop playing BGA after 2 yeras and all the games will go to a full length of 90 days. Also because the option to kick players is turned off, it is certain that if 1 person is not showing up, you go full 90 days.

The estimated in the new tournament setting is a joke by the way, as the estimate of this tournament is now ending in January 2029 (which is just 20 months). I am sure this is waaaaay to short calculated. I am gonna say this tournament will take 8-10 years.

Alsp in the new tournament tab it it shown that this person has created almost 3.000 tournaments now. People can think if someone is making a lot of tournaments, that person probably understand how to make the best tournaments ever, and maybe join the tournament for that reason.
For me, this note is saying absolutely nothing if i see a setup of a tournament like these.

What my feedback for tournaments are when i see tournaments like this:

- A person needs to play an X amount of that certain game before he can even setup a tournament (maybe 100? 200?, maybe more?). Than a person can understand what are normal settings for a tournament of that game.

- A tournament should have an maximum play length (max 2-3 years maybe, what can already feel very long). As said, the estimated calculation is a concern for me of that example. Maybe because only 10 players are registered now it is calculating "only" 20 months. I am 100% sure that this tournament is not ending January 2029.

- And this tournament is beginning in May 2027, so it is starting let's say in 1,5 years from now. Also that possibility should not be allowed in my opinion. 6 months max starting day from the point of creation, that is far enough. Then you probably know people are showing up, has not forgotten that they have registered for a tournnement.

People will be running away from tournaments if they are in tournaments like this, because it maybe is one of their first tournaments ever, and now they won't like tournaments again, or hoepfully they learned to read the settings properly and never join a tournament like this again.

[Strode]

People will be running away from tournaments if they are in tournaments like this, because it maybe is one of their first tournaments ever, and now they won't like tournaments again, or hoepfully they learned to read the settings properly and never join a tournament like this again.

I don't know, maybe they'd just learn not to join these particular tournaments. Maybe they'd check the specs next time.

I certainly don't agree with the suggestion that you should have to play a game 100+ times before they can set up a tournament.

[mrdoctor]

You appear to be overlooking the fact it's literally called "the long slow tournament", and then being surprised that it is both long and slow.

If people like the settings, then they sign up to them. If they don't like the settings, then they don't sign up. If a sign up changes their mind, they can withdraw. No-one is forced to participate.

[yodamus]

You will only make the mistake of joining one of those once. I did. Withdrew took penalty. And never ever to join a tourney with over 10 matches in swiss. Never over 15 days per game. 30 days per game for many 10 to 15 minute games is ridiculous. As op says. These new tourney makers are making some very bad tourneys. I see 1 day or 2 days to complete 4p matches for games with unknown turns. None completed in time. Those type will chase off new tourney players. First taste, Bad taste, Last taste.

[Meeplelowda]

These new tourney makers are making some very bad tourneys. I see 1 day or 2 days to complete 4p matches for games with unknown turns. None completed in time. Those type will chase off new tourney players. First taste, Bad taste, Last taste.

Some of them, as in this case, are not new.

[leafsnack]

January 2029 is 34 months away, not 20.

Regardless, I agree on a few points:
1. "90 days" is way too long for any tournament, ever. If we could remove that one and get 45 days instead, it would be much better. I know that's a pipe dream though, BGA will never make that kind of QOL change.
2. Tournament organizers should be able to kick players who have gone negative on one or more games in a tournament. That would solve a lot of these issues with timing.

[nik592]

You can also withdraw from a tournament if you find the settings don't work for you. Yes, there is a penalty, but is it more than the 4pt penalty for being kicked from a tournament game? Even so, karma penalties are fairly easy to recover, and if you haven't been receiving others, just make sure you stay within time on other games and you'll be back to full karma before too long.

[arrie1987]

You appear to be overlooking the fact it's literally called "the long slow tournament", and then being surprised that it is both long and slow.

You reaction make make laugh a bit. The fact that you call it long and slow should make it rightfull to create a tournament that last around 10 years??
These tournaments are more than worse with their settings.

You are creating a lot of tournament, with the same settings, which for a lot of games are crazy and very bad.

You think you are doing something good to create tournaments for others. If you would think about structure and setup also, than it would be great, but you are not thinking about setup at all.
Making tournaments with all the max settings you can find is just not ok.

If at some point you would make normal tournaments, than i will be changing this post or add something that you are doing a nice job for the community. Now, in my opinion, you are not and giving tournaments a very bad look.

[arrie1987]

January 2029 is 34 months away, not 20.

Regardless, I agree on a few points:
1. "90 days" is way too long for any tournament, ever. If we could remove that one and get 45 days instead, it would be much better. I know that's a pipe dream though, BGA will never make that kind of QOL change.
2. Tournament organizers should be able to kick players who have gone negative on one or more games in a tournament. That would solve a lot of these issues with timing.

The tournament is starting may 2027, so bga is calculating that it lasts 20 months this tournament to january 2029.
But 40 rounds of heat chamspionship are not finished in 20 months. If have played it with Heat committed players a tournament to try. We needed to be on top of it to finish it in 30 days a round. So with people who log in once a day or so, this is not gonna work.

Kicking out players from the host can be an improvement. But still, if you need to kick out to many people, then the tournament setup is incorrect in my opinion.

[arrie1987]

You can also withdraw from a tournament if you find the settings don't work for you. Yes, there is a penalty, but is it more than the 4pt penalty for being kicked from a tournament game? Even so, karma penalties are fairly easy to recover, and if you haven't been receiving others, just make sure you stay within time on other games and you'll be back to full karma before too long.

Yes people can withdraw, should read settings etc. I also have learned the hard way to do so with 1 of these tournaments.
I dont care about ELO and a bit of karma loss and i hope others as well if they need to withdraw.

But by saying people can do this or that and not join or withdraw is putting the problem on just 1 side, where in my opinion the problem starts with the fact that people can make tournaments with these ridicolous setups in the first place.

Great setup tournaments would have probably no or just a few withdraws upfront (not during the tournament). And you would only see out of time by table setups and turns with people living all over the world and not by people not joining anymore, because they dont play BGA anymore and forgot they joined a tournaments 1,5 year in advance.