Has anyone done an analysis of % of winners that have an eagle? I feel like more and more games come down to who has one to play on the last turn. IMO they should be removed from arena, as they just reward someone for getting lucky and it impacts the game too much.
Eagles in arena play
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Re: Eagles in arena play
On my own set of games, it was close to 53% when played (which doesn't count those snapped and unplayable). Amusing thing about eagles is that they are way over rated so beginners tends to play them even when they shouldn't.
Bottom line, strong not broken.
Bottom line, strong not broken.
Re: Eagles in arena play
I've won countless games without or against eagles.
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boardgamedude2
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 28 August 2023, 04:58
Re: Eagles in arena play
what would be a convincing % to have your opinion changed?thethirdrah wrote: ↑05 February 2026, 15:38 Has anyone done an analysis of % of winners that have an eagle? I feel like more and more games come down to who has one to play on the last turn. IMO they should be removed from arena, as they just reward someone for getting lucky and it impacts the game too much.
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ice wizard
- Posts: 23
- Joined: 31 March 2024, 11:17
Re: Eagles in arena play
You don't need eagles at all if you can gain points much faster than your opponents.
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ChrisTao_0
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 15 October 2023, 00:18
Re: Eagles in arena play
As the gameplay shifted away from build upgrade, eagles lost a lot of power. Game got faster in the process, so efficiency became more and more crucial.
Building actions are'nt efficient if you dont convert them in big points. Eagle are expensive, take big enclosures and don't grant a lot of points by themselves. I much prefer playing a tigre, tortuce or elephant for a similar cost.
Try to focus on simple strategies to gain time and you won't need eagle for that. Like 2 size reward early + clevering build + triggering brakes to gain enclosure + money + worker back.
Building actions are'nt efficient if you dont convert them in big points. Eagle are expensive, take big enclosures and don't grant a lot of points by themselves. I much prefer playing a tigre, tortuce or elephant for a similar cost.
Try to focus on simple strategies to gain time and you won't need eagle for that. Like 2 size reward early + clevering build + triggering brakes to gain enclosure + money + worker back.
Re: Eagles in arena play
Eagles are great, but they also need to be played around:
You need a big enclosure. Since most strong players don't upgrade build all that much these days, they are unlikely to just have an aviary ready.
They are expensive for the number of points they give.
You often need to carry them in your hand for a long time clogging up space.
You need something useful to do with your extra action.
Often it is simply better to play a proper "point bomb" animal like a Galapagos Tortoise, a Giant Panda, a Tiger or an Elephant.
Many players regard the Sun Bear as a stronger end game animal than eagles. It gives fewer points, but you usually have an empty two-size somewhere and Asia is the single most commonly taken partner zoo, so the requirements are easy to meet and the extra action you want to take in an endgame is usually association anyway.
So yeah, Eagles are great, but not broken.
You need a big enclosure. Since most strong players don't upgrade build all that much these days, they are unlikely to just have an aviary ready.
They are expensive for the number of points they give.
You often need to carry them in your hand for a long time clogging up space.
You need something useful to do with your extra action.
Often it is simply better to play a proper "point bomb" animal like a Galapagos Tortoise, a Giant Panda, a Tiger or an Elephant.
Many players regard the Sun Bear as a stronger end game animal than eagles. It gives fewer points, but you usually have an empty two-size somewhere and Asia is the single most commonly taken partner zoo, so the requirements are easy to meet and the extra action you want to take in an endgame is usually association anyway.
So yeah, Eagles are great, but not broken.
Re: Eagles in arena play
Most games I would rather have a rhino. Eagles just stand out because they can win the game in a flashy way at the last moment, instead of a quieter, more solid way earlier on.
Re: Eagles in arena play
Eagles are solid but not broken. The sun bear is a much better animal and best animal in game imo because it does the same thing usually but has the upside of being a 2 size animal. High value 2 size animals have massive upside because of the 2-size reward being so crucial.
Thing with eagle is that the typical play is eagle into project to end the game. This is a big point move so you can play it slow and have the last turn of the game which is of course an advantage.
However eagle + project is usually 8 tickets + ~5 CP (average project + reward/donation).
But that's really not that much better than something like elephant last turn which is like 8 tickets + 1 CP + ~2CP (average endgame).
On the whole an extra turn by itself is not all that valuable. Most top players score about ~120 in ~29 turns average. (you start at minus points but you also have endgame goal, starting resources etc.). The value of a turn is a bit tricky to calculate but on average i'd say about ~4.2 points. On the point making turns (project, sponsor, animals) we're often pretty happy with a ~10 point move but for all of those you also need to do setup (build/cards/x-back/associate for uni/zoo).
So simply analyzed a bald eagle is a ~12.2 point animal while say a sumatran tiger is a ~15.5 point animal. Given that the tiger costs 3 more the tiger is usually better than a 'normal' eagle, ie if you don't do anything special with it.
Point is eagles really need to have that synergy with the last turn, an aviary, stealing a project or a release to really shine. Aviaries are not that common anymore, marine worlds and the declining popularity of build upgrade just made them much less common. Many bigger birds are simply not that great to play unless released and releases are fought over hard. For finishing the game they are good but requires more setup and specifically a turn order of animals then associate to end while often it might be more convenient to just end with an animals move alone for example.
So on the whole eagles like pretty much all point bomb animals are great to play later on or end with. I would say they are the best from the big animals but the others are pretty close. Regarding best animals in the game I would think more about clownfish and sun bear. Eagles just get more attention because they are pivotal in the 'comeback' victory move.
Thing with eagle is that the typical play is eagle into project to end the game. This is a big point move so you can play it slow and have the last turn of the game which is of course an advantage.
However eagle + project is usually 8 tickets + ~5 CP (average project + reward/donation).
But that's really not that much better than something like elephant last turn which is like 8 tickets + 1 CP + ~2CP (average endgame).
On the whole an extra turn by itself is not all that valuable. Most top players score about ~120 in ~29 turns average. (you start at minus points but you also have endgame goal, starting resources etc.). The value of a turn is a bit tricky to calculate but on average i'd say about ~4.2 points. On the point making turns (project, sponsor, animals) we're often pretty happy with a ~10 point move but for all of those you also need to do setup (build/cards/x-back/associate for uni/zoo).
So simply analyzed a bald eagle is a ~12.2 point animal while say a sumatran tiger is a ~15.5 point animal. Given that the tiger costs 3 more the tiger is usually better than a 'normal' eagle, ie if you don't do anything special with it.
Point is eagles really need to have that synergy with the last turn, an aviary, stealing a project or a release to really shine. Aviaries are not that common anymore, marine worlds and the declining popularity of build upgrade just made them much less common. Many bigger birds are simply not that great to play unless released and releases are fought over hard. For finishing the game they are good but requires more setup and specifically a turn order of animals then associate to end while often it might be more convenient to just end with an animals move alone for example.
So on the whole eagles like pretty much all point bomb animals are great to play later on or end with. I would say they are the best from the big animals but the others are pretty close. Regarding best animals in the game I would think more about clownfish and sun bear. Eagles just get more attention because they are pivotal in the 'comeback' victory move.
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Christopheur
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 17 February 2024, 22:58
Re: Eagles in arena play
I'm not an expert player, but I would like to say that I welcome the discussion about eagles. At least it should be considered to have the option of removing eagles, in the same manner as the "remove powerful birds" option in Wingspan. I have in no way done any thorough statistical or mathematical analysis, but I know how I feel when an eagle shows up on the display: I have to get hold of it. Even worse is it when I get it in my hand in the initial draw. Then I have to hold on to it through the whole game. And if I don't have got an eagle, I keep open a space for the aviary as long as possible in case an eagle shows up and creates a eucatastrophy. I'm sure it's because I'm a bit simple-minded, and haven't bothered to evolve a more advanced tactical understanding, but I have worked my way up to 345 ELO at this point. And I don't always feel that I deserve it.
Now for the arguments for removing only the eagles. I really don't think the sun bear is comparably strong, because you only have the option of doing the association action afterwards. It only demands a standard size 2, but it also demands Asia zoo, which you don't necessarily have and which may be hard to get if you even have the option of getting more zoos at that point. The eagles you may put in an aviary, and if you put one or two other large birds in there as well, you can get a lot of points on quite small space and relatively cheap. And you also have the option of using a standard 4 or 5 enclosure, only demanding water or rock. Compared to other point bomb animals, like the elephants the eagles in themselves are relatively cheap. You may well be able to use the determination ability for another animal action, adding the points from those, in a way, to the eagle's value.
At least my humble opinion is that, given the low price and low requirements of the eagles, I would welcome the option of taking them out of the game.
Now for the arguments for removing only the eagles. I really don't think the sun bear is comparably strong, because you only have the option of doing the association action afterwards. It only demands a standard size 2, but it also demands Asia zoo, which you don't necessarily have and which may be hard to get if you even have the option of getting more zoos at that point. The eagles you may put in an aviary, and if you put one or two other large birds in there as well, you can get a lot of points on quite small space and relatively cheap. And you also have the option of using a standard 4 or 5 enclosure, only demanding water or rock. Compared to other point bomb animals, like the elephants the eagles in themselves are relatively cheap. You may well be able to use the determination ability for another animal action, adding the points from those, in a way, to the eagle's value.
At least my humble opinion is that, given the low price and low requirements of the eagles, I would welcome the option of taking them out of the game.