BGA ettiquette and chat

[torikitty28]

I just got "schooled" on this after saying "gg" after winning a game. While I agree with the overall sentiment that it's just a friendly farewell, I don't like when someone else tells others what is acceptable to say something. Couldn't it just mean, "Hey, it was a good game, and I appreciate your skill?" Some egos are a little too big, and some people really need to consider different cultures or just tokens of appreciation. I guess the default line of "Thanks for the game." is making more sense now. This also plays into the decisions of conceding games early when someone is losing. Without reading on the forum why some players do this, I would have kept taking offense at people doing it.

I know, this is just a drop in the bucket compared to other players' problematic behavior, but c'mon, games are fun, why would I throw it in your face? Grandstanding against a stranger doesn't get me anything. Assume good intent of others, and don't tell them how to talk.

[FrankJones]

Anyone who takes "good game" to have some sort of malicious or insulting meaning could probably find a way to be offended by "Thanks for the game" or any other such nicety.

[tbhp]

I like when winners say GG, but I don't do it myself after winning, unless I've had previous interactions with the user or if I have something else I want to comment about the game.

This tells me that there is nothing wrong with either side saying GG, it's just the fear of how it may be received that stops me from doing it when I'm in the winning position.

[tbhp]

I guess the default line of "Thanks for the game." is making more sense now.

I always found this default line to be a strange choice from the developers. I mean, I guess it's supposed to mean "thanks for having played this enjoyable game together" (although there can also be a more negative interpretation of "thanks for being terrible at this game and handing me an easy win").

It makes sense to say thank you in a friendly setting where you're just having fun, but it seems off in a competitive setting. I mean, can you imagine the players of a world cup final telling each other "thanks for this game" after the game is over? They would shake hands, they would acknowledge the result, but they wouldn't say "thanks, it was fun". Because at this level of game, it's not about having fun, it's about competition and winning, and no one would come out of this game thinking about how "fun" it was. They would be thinking about the history that was made.

[nik592]

It makes sense to say thank you in a friendly setting where you're just having fun, but it seems off in a competitive setting. I mean, can you imagine the players of a world cup final telling each other "thanks for this game" after the game is over? They would shake hands, they would acknowledge the result, but they wouldn't say "thanks, it was fun". Because at this level of game, it's not about having fun, it's about competition and winning, and no one would come out of this game thinking about how "fun" it was. They would be thinking about the history that was made.

A handshake, as far as I understood it, is code for "thankyou for playing this with me, I appreciate your time and your effort". I'm pretty sure I've seen players saying things to each other at a handshake along the lines of good game, thanks for the game, etc.

I also doubt most players are thinking about the "history". The feeling I've seen demonstrated at the end of an important match seems to be more pride in hard work that's been happening to get them to that point (of winning) or disappointment that they weren't able to come out ahead (when losing). Not all final matches are worthy of being remembered in detail based on the content of the match. And I suspect there is a degree of "fun" (or positive feeling, however you want to label it) experienced by the players, regardless of the context of a match.

[tbhp]

A handshake, as far as I understood it, is code for "thankyou for playing this with me, I appreciate your time and your effort". I'm pretty sure I've seen players saying things to each other at a handshake along the lines of good game, thanks for the game, etc.

It's more about acknowledging the game. It sort of means "thank you" in the sense of a solemn salutation, but that seems quite removed from the more lively and enthusiastic way people may say "thank you" when they are just playing for fun. I mean, it even comes with an exclamation point in the default line on this website, which definitely feels off when the setting is all serious and competitive. It makes it feel like your opponent is taking the game lightly (when they probably aren't, they are just using the translate feature).

One of the good things about GG is that it sounds cold and neutral in meaning, so it works well for any context, I think.

I also doubt most players are thinking about the "history". The feeling I've seen demonstrated at the end of an important match seems to be more pride in hard work that's been happening to get them to that point (of winning) or disappointment that they weren't able to come out ahead (when losing).

It goes hand in hand. You won't feel as much pride if you don't feel that the competition you took part in holds significance.

This is why the "aesthetics" of a tournament, as I think of it, have more importance than I think people credit them. The way you name your tournaments, the logo you give them, the messages you write on the front page, all those things help create an identity, a culture and a purpose to your tournament that will help make people feel like they are participating in something important.

And I suspect there is a degree of "fun" (or positive feeling, however you want to label it) experienced by the players, regardless of the context of a match.

Sure, but that's like calling classical music "fun". The word doesn't do justice to the kind of enjoyment you get from it. And for games, there's the whole stress and performance aspects that get mixed in with the appreciation of the game and of the event.

All in all, fun doesn't seem like a fitting descriptor for such a major occasion (although I will vouch that the same games can very aptly be called fun when played with friends in casual settings).

[FrankJones]

This topic has been discussed as infimum and ad nauseum in various posts.

Some view "gg", "thanks for the game," etc, as meaning, "Thank you for playing with good sportsmanship, playing by the rules, not injuring any of our players, etc. I would interpret it that way, because I would never say any of those thins if the opponent(s), in a board game or sports event, did not engage in good sportsmanship, and/or did injure one or my teammates and/or not play by the rules.

But, not everyone will take that same meaning. And no pleasantry is going to have universal agreement with regard to its benevolent intent and meaning.

What galls me is, I say some sort of greeting or pleasantry at the start of each game, and often, the opponent says ... nothing. What is that all about ?

[torikitty28]

What galls me is, I say some sort of greeting or pleasantry at the start of each game, and often, the opponent says ... nothing. What is that all about ?

I do feel bad about not responding to those opening comments. I try to see them as pleasant, but sometimes my own head gets in the way, and the over-pleasantness irks me. Especially if I'm trying to grind to get to the next tier in Arena, and......I'm sucking! So, that's really all about me. Don't stop being you! I know that the more upbeat players appreciate it.

Thanks everyone else for your responses. I'm glad I'm not alone, and y'all feel similarly. I suspect that a lot of the different play styles vary across different continents and age groups.

[tbhp]

What galls me is, I say some sort of greeting or pleasantry at the start of each game, and often, the opponent says ... nothing. What is that all about ?

I do feel bad about not responding to those opening comments. I try to see them as pleasant, but sometimes my own head gets in the way, and the over-pleasantness irks me. Especially if I'm trying to grind to get to the next tier in Arena, and......I'm sucking! So, that's really all about me. Don't stop being you! I know that the more upbeat players appreciate it.

Thanks everyone else for your responses. I'm glad I'm not alone, and y'all feel similarly. I suspect that a lot of the different play styles vary across different continents and age groups.

That's an interesting perspective. I don't see much of a point in greeting a random opponent at the beginning of a game either, though I'll always reply if the other person does it. But I don't hold it against people who say nothing, because I have no idea what their circumstances might be and what is the reason for their silence. Even if they just don't like talking, that's fine with me.

[Archisian]

I'm going to be in the minority here, of course, and I'll tell you that I absolutely hate it when people tell me "gg", regardless of whether they win or lose.

I'm someone who despises what I call "fake politeness". What I mean by that is I extremely dislike when people do actions disingenuously, either because they are lazy or because it's something they "have to do" despite what the other person feels. Why would anyone waste their time saying or doing something they don't mean? I don't see much difference between this kind of fake politeness and simply lying. I prefer real interactions with real people who actually mean what they say. There are people who are the opposite of me who prefer having people put on a front and say things they don't really mean. I don't understand it at all.

I've heard the arguments that "gg" is just shorthand for all the long things that they want to actually say. Well, that signals to me that they simply can't overcome their laziness to say what they want, which makes their "gg" worthless at best and insulting at worst. I'm not worth being told what you actually think? Well, that would just make me think poorly of you in my eyes.

When it comes to saying "gg" first when you have won the game, this is further not taking into account the opponent and what they might think or feel. Games are about competition. Winning and losing matters. There is no benefit to losing other than "Well, I can't do that again." The winner receives all the benefit, especially if it's in a tournament or there is a championship on the line. So the loser has to deal with failing to achieve the goal of winning the game (whatever the stakes) and now further has to deal with the winner telling them a lazy "gg", all while the loser has to just grin and accept it like it's no big deal, lest they incur social consequences for not reciprocating a meaningless gesture.

When it comes to a loser saying "gg" first, this is just a sign of submission. They accept their defeat. Okay, great? I can clearly see the score sheet that tells me I won, why do I need your acknowledgement of this reality? By not saying "gg". you can't acknowledge you lost or something? Are you worried I'm going to look down on you personally?

You see, most people who say "gg" don't mean it whatsoever. They have zero intentions of having a genuine interaction with their opponent. They do it because they feel they have to, even if they don't want to. How does this make a better community? I've seen some people say that getting mad at "gg" is like getting mad at "Good morning". No, they aren't remotely comparable. A "Good morning" can actually be genuine and heartfelt. "gg" can never be this. Even in person, "gg" is still disingenuous and can never have real meaning.

I find it interesting how some of the same people who complain about opponents conceding late in the game because they "can't take 5 seconds to finish it out" are the same people who say it's say it's okay to do a meaningless "gg" to save time. I see them having contrary positions that kind of defeats the their points on both fronts. In the end, it's just better to say nothing at all than to perform a worthless gesture.

I'm sure the replies are going to be fun, lol.