Arena Season 25: Spring Cleaning Incoming, Welcome to a New Season!

[Meeplelowda]

Can Wingspan go back to 3 players, please? Anyone else agree?

https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=624

[4gub6hcs4g]

I am new to BGA and am struggling to understand a system

You’re new and don’t understand the current system but you’re ready to throw it out and say “this other system would be better”?

This is different to league systems I have encountered previously.

It is, yes.

I was hoping other forum users might be friendly, welcoming, tolerant and patient. Clearly this was not a hope I should have entertained.

Well, you charged in and said, “the system makes no sense! You should do things my way!” One person then suggested you should provide actual reasons instead of broad declarations, and another person asked for details (“promoted to what?”), but sure, they’re the rude ones.

Lest I be mistaken here, I personally do think the current system is silly. But, were I in a mood to suggest changes (which I wouldn’t be unless I had some faith that anybody in charge was listening), I sure wouldn’t go about things your way.

I haven't 'charged in' and said anything of the sort. You clearly haven't read any of my posts. Maybe you should have actually read what I wrote before you decided to give your ill-informed and unsought opinions. But you're right, I probably shouldn't be surprised that an online board games forum is populated by a bunch of emotionally illiterate autists.

[BarnardsStar]

I probably shouldn't be surprised that an online board games forum is populated by a bunch of emotionally illiterate autists.

—an excerpt from How to Win Friends and Influence People, by 4gub6hcs4g

[BarnardsStar]

Well, you charged in and said, “the system makes no sense! You should do things my way!” One person then suggested you should provide actual reasons instead of broad declarations, and another person asked for details (“promoted to what?”), but sure, they’re the rude ones.

I haven't 'charged in' and said anything of the sort. You clearly haven't read any of my posts.

Sure I have. I read the one where you said:

What's the logic for relegating everyone at the end of the season? Most games don't operate this way. Usually poor performers are relegated and good performers are promoted.

and then the post where you got an answer, and then your reply, which was to entirely ignore the answer given and say:

Wouldn't a traditional league system be better?

Note that you aren’t actually making an argument here, you’re just suggesting things should be done differently for Reasons. Maybe you even know what those Reasons are, but you haven’t bothered sharing them so the net effect is that you are saying “you should do things my way!” No reasoning, no argument, just “my way would be better!”

unsought opinions.

I’ve got news for you. This is on online message board. All opinions here are unsought. Certainly yours were.

[FrankJones]

I am new to BGA and am struggling to understand a system whereby you are constantly promoted but never relegated, apart from at the end of the season. This is different to league systems I have encountered previously. I was hoping other forum users might be friendly, welcoming, tolerant and patient. Clearly this was not a hope I should have entertained.

1) Welcome to BGA. This is a great site! Try out your favorite games, and enjoy.

2) The Arena system here is not perfect, but it doesn't need to be. For starters, no group of people will ever have the same ideas of what "perfect" means. It also voluntary. You can play Elo ranked games completely outside the Arena. I do this for most of my games.

3) Each new 3-month arena season here has everyone start with a fresh clean slate, if there are 3 tiers or fewer. If there are 4 or more tiers, players in the top tier(s) will start one or two leagues up from the bottom, but will still need to advance several leagues to get back to Elite. I think it's fine. At the start of each season, all players need to earn their way upward, and new players have a chance to do the same thing.

4) What other league systems are you referring to, and why would you expect BGA to operate the same way? In pro sports, each season every team starts with a 0-0 record and has the same path and requirements to reach the championship game at the end of the season. The Dodgers won the World series last year, but they still started this year with an 0-0 record. You make it sound as though the teams that make the playoffs one year get to start in the major leagues and the other teams get relegated to the minor leagues.

5) The good players in each game make their way to the top of the arena leaderboard each season. What's the problem, exactly? What are you proposing, exactly?

6) Most people here are friendly and welcoming. If you feel as though people in this thread were not, perhaps your own tone and demeanor was a factor.

[FrankJones]

Wouldn't a traditional league system be better?

What exactly are you proposing? I am not familiar with what a "traditional" league system is for a board game site. This is the only board game site I've been on that has an "arena".

[FrankJones]

Chill out, why are you being rude? I am only asking a question.

I have no idea who this was addressed to, but is the rudeness present in this thread? Because, I can't find it anywhere. I saw multiple people asking you to clarify what you were expecting or what you were proposing. How exactly is that "rude"?

[Meeplelowda]

4) What other league systems are you referring to...? ... You make it sound as though the teams that make the playoffs one year get to start in the major leagues and the other teams get relegated to the minor leagues.

They are referring to a system like the English Premier League where in fact the bottom teams do get relegated to English Football League Championship, the tier below the Premier League, and the top teams in the EFL get promoted to the Premier League.

and why would you expect BGA to operate the same way?

This is another way of asking for the reasons we've all been waiting for.

But in lieu of being told those reasons, here are my reasons why I wouldn't prefer that system. Suppose chess were actually rated on BGA and Magnus Carlsen got a BGA account to play chess. I know this is absurd. There are much better platforms that he already uses. But what would be patently absurd is if he had to start in bronze and take three months to move up to silver after destroying everyone he plays. Then repeat that again for however many tiers there are to get to elite.

But this system would have an advantage. We frequently see complaints from people that they keep facing people rated far higher (or lower) than them even if they are both bronze or both elite. A promotion/relegation system where everyone only plays people in the same tier would mitigate that issue. However, this only makes sense for games with huge player pools, because you'd be segmented that pool into as many parts as their are tiers. In less popular games, it would take far too long for matchmaking.

But the French professional football league has a promotion/relegation system, although it's not decided based on record alone. I'm assuming the founders of BGA knew of these types of systems and decided not to use it for Arena. I'm fine with the system as it is, but I would be curious to know why they chose this direction.

[FrankJones]

Thank you for the example - As people may have guessed, I am unfamiliar with the English Premier league and most or all other international leagues (international relative to the U.S. where I am from). In U.S. pro sports, all teams start each new season in the same league.

Here at BGA, the Arena system for games with 4 or more tiers does actually more closely resemble the English Premier league than U.S.pro sports leagues, so now I am even more confused as to what 4gub6hcs4g's gripe is. If a game has enough players for 6 tiers, the subsequent season has players starting in three different tiers, with the players reaching the top 3 tiers the previous season being rewarded with a higher starting tier.

Another thing to keep in mind is that BGA's aim is likely to reach and appeal to the largest audience and create the highest overall engagement. They seem to be doing an excellent job. This site has 1500 active games despite a small staff largely run by volunteers. There are lots of features, and lots of satisfied members. A premium membership costs literally pennies a day.

4gub6hcs4g, maybe the way things are run here isn't exactly what you want. Consider the possibility that maybe what you want isn't what most people here want. As you said, you're new here.

This site has a lot of great features - again, for pennies a day (Or, free, for people who don't think they are getting 20 cents a day worth of value from the myriad features.

[Trevor-UK]

How do we appeal for any future changes in game preferences. Catan's "Friendly Robber" is simply awful, and simply means that any sevens you roll near the beginning the game are an entirely wasted turn. Would never play like that in real life, and just can't understand why it's been implemented here.