Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Discussions about BGA (all languages)
Forum rules
Warning: challenging a moderation in Forum = 10 days ban
More info & details about how to challenge a moderation: viewtopic.php?p=119756
User avatar
tbhp
Posts: 717
Joined: 16 April 2025, 00:35

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by tbhp »

BarnardsStar wrote: 29 April 2026, 06:14
nik592 wrote: 29 April 2026, 02:09 whatever coding someone thinks might be being implemented to favour someone other than them.
As a software developer, this is the part that really speaks to me. For some games like poker or yahtzee, it is at least somewhat plausible the game could be rigged. For most games, forget it. In most games, the level of analysis needed to actually rig the game for somebody or against somebody else is just… well, it’s a lot.
Well it depends. It would be pretty simple to code if you simply focused on the last turn of each player. The system already is programmed to be able to calculate each player's score, so it would be as simple as a code that says "roll, if the returned resources make the wrong player win, then roll again", so it would keep rolling until it benefits the player it wants to win.

Of course, this only works for the cases where a game is close and the last rolls are decisive. But if you have the goal of advantaging certain players, you don't need a code that makes it happen for every game, you just need to have it happen often enough that those particular players will feel a more positive experience on average.
User avatar
nik592
Posts: 1390
Joined: 16 October 2022, 13:54

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by nik592 »

tbhp wrote: 29 April 2026, 21:17
BarnardsStar wrote: 29 April 2026, 06:14
nik592 wrote: 29 April 2026, 02:09 whatever coding someone thinks might be being implemented to favour someone other than them.
As a software developer, this is the part that really speaks to me. For some games like poker or yahtzee, it is at least somewhat plausible the game could be rigged. For most games, forget it. In most games, the level of analysis needed to actually rig the game for somebody or against somebody else is just… well, it’s a lot.
Well it depends. It would be pretty simple to code if you simply focused on the last turn of each player. The system already is programmed to be able to calculate each player's score, so it would be as simple as a code that says "roll, if the returned resources make the wrong player win, then roll again", so it would keep rolling until it benefits the player it wants to win.

Of course, this only works for the cases where a game is close and the last rolls are decisive. But if you have the goal of advantaging certain players, you don't need a code that makes it happen for every game, you just need to have it happen often enough that those particular players will feel a more positive experience on average.
If the returned resources make the wrong player win? It's not just a matter of if a player has a bird in their hand that eats two worms, and the dice roll two worms, well, that's that. What if it's not that player's turn (or are you saying that it will only roll favourably on their specific turn)? Sometimes you get a lucky break that someone else rolls the dice, and leaves the two worms you need in the tray for your next turn. What if you're only able to draw one food, not two? What if you're on the level where you can draw one food and an extra if you discard a card? Is the system working out if you have a card spare, or if it would make logical sense to toss Card B just to play Card A? What if you're not planning to play Card A? What if Card A isn't actually worth playing against Card B, which is worth fewer points, but counts toward round-end goals/hidden objectives? What if you have an action before you can play Card A that requires you to discard or tuck a card - and doing so with Card A makes the most strategic sense? What you're describing would have such a minimal effect that I doubt anyone (either the player being favoured, or their opponent) would notice.

In addition, people usually say that "premium" players get rigged advantage. What if all players at a table are premium? Yes, I realise they can decide by something else, but doing so adds another level of complexity to the code. The more complexity, the more risk of bugs. At minimum, there's probably a half dozen lines of code for even the most BASIC rigging you could do (that would likely be largely pointless and almost indistinguishable from true randomness). That's still more complicated than saying, "var roll = rng(1,6);" or something. And what benefit is there to a volunteer dev to do this?
User avatar
Strode
Posts: 297
Joined: 18 April 2020, 04:49

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by Strode »

tbhp wrote: 29 April 2026, 21:17
BarnardsStar wrote: 29 April 2026, 06:14
nik592 wrote: 29 April 2026, 02:09 whatever coding someone thinks might be being implemented to favour someone other than them.
As a software developer, this is the part that really speaks to me. For some games like poker or yahtzee, it is at least somewhat plausible the game could be rigged. For most games, forget it. In most games, the level of analysis needed to actually rig the game for somebody or against somebody else is just… well, it’s a lot.
Well it depends. It would be pretty simple to code if you simply focused on the last turn of each player. The system already is programmed to be able to calculate each player's score, so it would be as simple as a code that says "roll, if the returned resources make the wrong player win, then roll again", so it would keep rolling until it benefits the player it wants to win.

Of course, this only works for the cases where a game is close and the last rolls are decisive. But if you have the goal of advantaging certain players, you don't need a code that makes it happen for every game, you just need to have it happen often enough that those particular players will feel a more positive experience on average.
Why would a developer do this? What's their interest?

Don't say money. Many developers don't even get paid, and I can't see how any of them would make more money if premium players win.
FrankJones
Posts: 2449
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by FrankJones »

If a developer could write code that somehow favors one Wingspan player with an RNG result, that same developer would likely be able to write a code for a computer player to be a competent opponent at Wingspan, which has been shown not to be the case. So much information would need to be taken into account for a set of coded instructions to understand how or why a specific result would favor one player over another in a complex thematic strategy game.
User avatar
Silene
Posts: 980
Joined: 23 October 2013, 17:50

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by Silene »

FrankJones wrote: 30 April 2026, 01:38 If a developer could write code that somehow favors one Wingspan player with an RNG result, that same developer would likely be able to write a code for a computer player to be a competent opponent at Wingspan, ...
be careful, exaggerating might undermine your valid point
Check out the Allround-League: https://boardgamearena.com/group?id=7870115 --> a league where you have matches of random games vs. other players in your group. Season 9 registration oct. '25.
User avatar
TheaLuna
Posts: 38
Joined: 11 April 2021, 02:30

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by TheaLuna »

Im not a techie nor a dev.. I have no idea how the scoring system works. I do know I am on the receiving end of losing when I play players with higher or more elo than I.. (i no longer bother with Arena - its demoralizing) and I have posted of this before only to be trolled and told to stop whinging..

I agree there are times it seems the game is rigged to favour some.. for instance.. a number of times I have been in what looks like the sure winning position.. only to get trashed by the higher elo in the last few moves... IMO there is something wrong as an elo bias becomes obvious when you play as often as I do.
I don't know if some games are biased toward a particular player by the dev or not but I guess that's possible.. but why? ELO yes, definitely, a particular player - Id be surprised..And honestly, who gets a full heart winning bc of a cheat anyway? Silly idea. :)
Cheers.
FrankJones
Posts: 2449
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by FrankJones »

TheaLuna wrote: 30 April 2026, 03:45 Im not a techie nor a dev.. I have no idea how the scoring system works. I do know I am on the receiving end of losing when I play players with higher or more elo than I.. (i no longer bother with Arena - its demoralizing) and I have posted of this before only to be trolled and told to stop whinging..

Yes. When you play against people who are better at the game, you are going to be on the losing end more often than not.

Why would anyone have an expectation of winning consistently against higher-Elo players?
FrankJones
Posts: 2449
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by FrankJones »

TheaLuna wrote: 30 April 2026, 03:45
I agree there are times it seems the game is rigged to favour some.. for instance.. a number of times I have been in what looks like the sure winning position.. only to get trashed by the higher elo in the last few moves... IMO there is something wrong as an elo bias becomes obvious when you play as often as I do.
I am often that higher rated player. High-rated players have an end-game plan. That's how high-rated players win games. Watch their game replays from their vantage point and observe the decisions, choices ,and moves they make throughout the game starting at move 1. In games with a card deck, I'll save cards from the start of the game to make a major points swing during the end-game phase. It requires planning, strategy, study, analysis, and skill. There is no RNG helping me. I often win games in which I get horribly unlucky multiple times.
FrankJones
Posts: 2449
Joined: 30 June 2024, 00:24

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by FrankJones »

Silene wrote: 30 April 2026, 01:43
FrankJones wrote: 30 April 2026, 01:38 If a developer could write code that somehow favors one Wingspan player with an RNG result, that same developer would likely be able to write a code for a computer player to be a competent opponent at Wingspan, ...
be careful, exaggerating might undermine your valid point
I'm serious. Coding a non-thinking computer opponent is a (very difficult) mater of writing out a very lengthy set of instructions that a non-thinking computer program can execute to make good plays in games with randomness, hidden information, and decisions that will have effects dozens or hundreds of moves later.

That same information would be needed to "rig the game" for one player over another, because the "right" dice rolls or the "right" card draws depend greatly on dozens of factors and pieces of information.
User avatar
Paddles
Posts: 81
Joined: 25 March 2012, 12:04

Re: Deleting my BGA account, just wanted to say GoodBye

Post by Paddles »

TheaLuna wrote: 30 April 2026, 03:45 I agree there are times it seems the game is rigged to favour some.. for instance.. a number of times I have been in what looks like the sure winning position.. only to get trashed by the higher elo in the last few moves... IMO there is something wrong as an elo bias becomes obvious when you play as often as I do.
(emphasis added)

Just because it looks, to you, like a sure winning position doesn't mean that it really is. While I have limited experience in Wingspan and Wyrmspan, I've played enough games to observe that the position and scores can change significantly in the last couple of moves and the game-end scoring - because one of the other players had a longer-term strategy that I hadn't seen. This is on face-to-face games (not BGA), so I can't blame a website or developer for rigging the game, I was simply beaten by someone that played significantly better than I and the other players did.

If it happens to me on BGA, it seems far more likely that my opponent was a better player, not that the game developer or site has rigged the game for me. Same with Catan - it would be both hypocritical and fallacial for me to argue that when the dice produce ample resources for me, I win because of skilful play, but when the dice results are giving my opponent more resources then it must have been rigged in their favour. In games with both skill and luck factors, skill will tend to succeed in the long term but not necessarily on every single game.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussions”