Lost Fleet

[flammifera]

Deferred power gain is a good suggestion, but an absolute headache to set up.

Instead, we received, accepted, and implemented a suggestion to add auto-charge options. You can choose which charges you want to accept in advance, which keeps the game moving without becoming a coding nightmare. It's a good compromise between what's feasible for developers and what's ideal for players and it does so without circumventing the rules of the game, which would require publisher buy-in.

I would *love* deferred power gain, so thanks for explaining that it would be a headache to set up - and yes, thank you for those auto-charge options! That definitely does help Would it be feasible, or too much trouble, to add an auto-charge option that is “never accept charge” ?

For instance I usually keep it at auto-charge, accept charging 1 for 0 VP, then I want to make a case-by-case decision on all other options. But sometimes I have it arranged so that the charge I want will exactly be covered by my income phase next round, so in that case I keep logging in to say “no”. Just thought it would be worth a question!

Overall, thanks so much for your work on Gaia Project, and thank you also for your referencing previous discussions on things like an Undo Button - I’m newer to BGA so I didn’t realize it’s been so extensively discussed, I’ve gone back and looked at other discussions now.

[Kayvon]

Yes, I just checked the code and I can add an option to decline all charges without too much trouble. I'll see if the UI designer is up for adding that on his end.

From a developer perspective, my biggest concern here is that players set the option, then forget. Then they file a bug report that takes developer time to address (and get mad when we suggest that they did it to themselves). Nearly 100% of "bugs" filed for Gaia Project at this point are rules misunderstandings, except for the one from last week about zombie players not passing correctly. I think that the only real one we've had... maybe in a couple years?

I've just added new backend code to support "always decline" in the options. I've updated the design doc for my codesigner to consider. I can't promise that it'll happen, but it's probably likely.

[Kayvon]

I'm sure you'll need to make tweaks to the random map algorithm [...] Would you consider changing it so that printed gaia planets can't be adjacent to home planets as in the board game?

This is great feedback. When I originally dedicated a weekend to implementing the random map, the blowback from "pro" players was hard. There's a BGG thread where I'm lambasted for not balancing it perfectly, but when I asked for feedback on how to balance it, those who bothered responding merely said that it was obvious to them and they couldn't/wouldn't explain it to me. That's fine; I'm definitely not a pro player. But it doesn't help me improve it.

The "pro" players in the thread declared that the entire option was worthless and no one would use it. Ironically, across all the games we've adapted, I believe it's the most used option! (BGA players tend to leave the options at their defaults when starting tables.)

That's all to say... I recognize there's probably some room for improvement, but I don't know what that improvement would be. It sounds like maybe you do. If you're interested in helping to tweak this algorithm, send me an IM and we can start an email thread. I'll break down how the current algorithm works and you can suggests different weights and values to tweak it for better balance.

[flammifera]

Yes, I just checked the code and I can add an option to decline all charges without too much trouble. I'll see if the UI designer is up for adding that on his end.
…
I've just added new backend code to support "always decline" in the options. I've updated the design doc for my codesigner to consider. I can't promise that it'll happen, but it's probably likely.

Oh cool! Understood re no promises, but it’s nice to know at least it wasn’t an impossible ask

From a developer perspective, my biggest concern here is that players set the option, then forget. Then they file a bug report that takes developer time to address (and get mad when we suggest that they did it to themselves). Nearly 100% of "bugs" filed for Gaia Project at this point are rules misunderstandings, except for the one from last week about zombie players not passing correctly. I think that the only real one we've had... maybe in a couple years?

Ugh for SURE, this thought occurred to me when I was asking it too. I’m pretty good about changing selections on “take income before charge” vs “charge before taking income” vs leaving it to maximize without wasting charge, re the power tokens, but when I adjust it for one round, I always know there’s the risk to forget to adjust it back. So I know it would be a risk regarding “always decline passive charge” too, and I can totally understand not wanting to leave open that option for players to forget then file a bug.

[montybojangles]

I'm sure you'll need to make tweaks to the random map algorithm [...] Would you consider changing it so that printed gaia planets can't be adjacent to home planets as in the board game?

This is great feedback. When I originally dedicated a weekend to implementing the random map, the blowback from "pro" players was hard. There's a BGG thread where I'm lambasted for not balancing it perfectly, but when I asked for feedback on how to balance it, those who bothered responding merely said that it was obvious to them and they couldn't/wouldn't explain it to me. That's fine; I'm definitely not a pro player. But it doesn't help me improve it.

The "pro" players in the thread declared that the entire option was worthless and no one would use it. Ironically, across all the games we've adapted, I believe it's the most used option! (BGA players tend to leave the options at their defaults when starting tables.)

That's all to say... I recognize there's probably some room for improvement, but I don't know what that improvement would be. It sounds like maybe you do. If you're interested in helping to tweak this algorithm, send me an IM and we can start an email thread. I'll break down how the current algorithm works and you can suggests different weights and values to tweak it for better balance.

I'm not convinced by the need to have no direct adjacency of gaias with other planets on the Random map. That's why it's a Random map! If one wants to have no direct adjacencies, the Variable map can be used.

However, if it is ever intended to implement this change, would it be possible to have a poll to check players want it, say as done for Arena seasons (but done just once!)?

Btw, I love the Random maps. Yes, from time to time they throw up what at first glance seem 'unfair' or 'weird' set-ups, but actually are new and fascinating challenges to test one's skill.

[Kayvon]

would it be possible to have a poll to check players want it, say as done for Arena seasons (but done just once!)?

That's a pretty disruptive change to the flow of the game already. Probably more disruptive than I want to introduce to the feature. At this point, I'm more looking at weights and balances to the algorithm than a redesign of the options or game flow.

For those interested, here's the BGG discussion from several years back.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2772389/

[dralkyr]

I apologize that I'm sure I've missed it, but how can I access Lost Fleet? I have been an Alpha tester before so I think my account should have access.

@Kayvon thank you for all the work done here. I adore GP at the table and love that we can play it here.

[Kayvon]

I apologize that I'm sure I've missed it

It sounds like you just skipped to the end of the thread.

Here's your answer:
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... 23#p246223

[dralkyr]

I apologize that I'm sure I've missed it

It sounds like you just skipped to the end of the thread.

Here's your answer:
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... 23#p246223

I read the first two pages and pages 4 and 5 before commenting. I did see that post, but the way I saw some people posting it looked as if they were already playing Lost Fleet Alpha. Apologies to add to the annoyance.

[Kayvon]

No problem; I see how that could easily be misunderstood.

That's the latest news. The converation since then has driften into QOL features with the existing implementation.