App tweak suggestions

[Chouette hulotte]

Hello WS community. I have a couple of suggestions on the app functionality and wondered what people thought about them? If there's a consensus I can see if we're able to tweak the design.

1) Move the Tooltip Mode button to the side? I'm constantly hitting it on pressing confirm. I don't know if other players find this?

2) Make it easier to scroll when you have 7+ cards under your board. I currently struggle with this.

If I'm fat-fingered and these are only my issues, I'll sit myself down and not mention it again

[WingspanG0D]

It's not just you, i have the same issue, it's pretty annoying

[FrankJones]

3) Fix the game replay glitches. This is the only game I play that bugs out when I "skip to move #___ (fast)". It makes viewing game replays very frustrating, because to get to any point in the game without having most of the information displayed incorrectly, each move must be clicked one click at a time, which is very tiresome.

4) Make initial choices simultaneous, and do not display who will be going first until after the selections are made.

[Andrei3009]

I totally agree with the replay bugs, they are very annoying. I would also like to add that it is worth removing from the replay reminder that some cards have been switched to automatic/manual mode.

Keeping starting hand without knowing whether you are going first is a very bad idea, as it can reduce some games to a 50/50 gamble, which is much worse than just the first player's advantage. To make going second more balanced, an option to pick starting resources in order could be added, but it probably won't be added since the publisher himself decided to change that option to the current rules

[FrankJones]

Keeping starting hand without knowing whether you are going first is a very bad idea, as it can reduce some games to a 50/50 gamble, which is much worse than just the first player's advantage.

I'm confused. The official rule has been changed from the rule as written in the rulebook?

[Andrei3009]

Keeping starting hand without knowing whether you are going first is a very bad idea, as it can reduce some games to a 50/50 gamble, which is much worse than just the first player's advantage.

I'm confused. The official rule has been changed from the rule as written in the rulebook?

I was wrong, I mixed up the real rules and suggestions on the bga.

According to the official rules, it should be done exactly as you suggest - first all players choose the starting resources, then the first player is selected. There was a discussion on wingspan forum that rules on the bga were different and it was said that the publisher wanted to change them to current ones

When I first came across the game (in was IRL), we also changed the rules for simplicity and always played like on bga

[FrankJones]

Player 1 already has a big advantage - being able to take a top-tier bird from the tray if there is one. Or, being first to play a wetland bird, lay eggs, and draw more than one card.

Knowing before choosing starting cards that I will go first further adds to that advantage. Now I not only get that first chance at the bird tray, but I can plan my starting hand around it. Player 2, even after selecting starting cards, does not know for sure what the bird tray will look like.

[Andrei3009]

Player 1 already has a big advantage - being able to take a top-tier bird from the tray if there is one. Or, being first to play a wetland bird, lay eggs, and draw more than one card.

Knowing before choosing starting cards that I will go first further adds to that advantage. Now I not only get that first chance at the bird tray, but I can plan my starting hand around it. Player 2, even after selecting starting cards, does not know for sure what the bird tray will look like.

The first player does have an advantage, but the problem needs to be solved in a different way — for example, by revealing the bird tray only after the players have made their choice.

Regarding your suggestion: imagine a situation where, say, a pileated woodpecker is in the tray. Each player faces a dilemma — keep the worm with the berry (assuming the berry isn't needed for other cards, which is often true) or play as if the opponent will get it. If you take the risk and win the 50/50, the game goes well, especially if the opponent also took the risk — but it will be terrible if it's the opposite. If one player is much weaker than the other, it's always beneficial for the weaker one to take risks, but not for the stronger one. Thus, the stronger player plays as if they are second not 50% of the time, but 100% of the time. Moreover, although the first player does have a decent advantage, wings are quite random, and good cards matter much more (I know it's easier for the first player in this regard, but still, it's not as much compared to the number of cards drawn over the course of the game) than the first move. Besides, I would prefer having the first-player advantage over a 50/50 casino purely because it is more fun

[FrankJones]

The first player does have an advantage, but the problem needs to be solved in a different way — for example, by revealing the bird tray only after the players have made their choice.

I'm fine with that solution.

My main objection, as I noted, is seeing the card tray AND knowing that I'm going first. Hiding the card tray and showing the player 1 token is, to me, equivalent to showing the card tray and hiding the player 1 marker.

So, I'm fine with either one. I'm tired from a long day which is probably why I am not entirely understanding why your suggestion affects the game differently, but I'll give it another look later.

[illy831]

Wow, what? I didn't know that! That's a whole different game, more so if the feeder state and face-up cards are not known either.

Though from the FAQ https://stonemaiergames.com/games/wingspan/rules/:

In more competitive environments (like digital adaptations or tournaments), it is an official variant to have the turn order determined before everyone chooses which cards and food to keep.