No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

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FrankJones
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by FrankJones »

BalGAmor wrote: 04 May 2026, 13:07 You can always contact us using the /support page. The link is at the bottom every page.
I agree with Selene. My prior attempts to contact BGA support involved a frustrating menu that had options that did not match what I wanted to ask about. The way it is designed seems to be aimed at minimizing the extent to which BGA staff would need to respond to people's specific inquiries; instead attempting to route them through a series of menus that BGA hopes will answer their questions. This is understandable, given what is likely a small staff on a site that has a large number of members.

But that does not make it any less frustrating.

One of the most common issues I see discussed in the forums are rules issues. Rules of etiquette or rules of the BGA site, not specific game rules.

When people post issues in the general discussion forum, which we are currently using for this thread, members often reply with, "you should probably contact BGA support". But, where in that menu list is there an option to contact BGA regarding rules of fairness? In a very recent thread near the top of this same forum, there is a question of whether it is acceptable for a player to receive outside advice from another member or player for a current move in an in-progress game. No BGA staff has responded, and apparently the written rules are vague, hazy, or unclear about this.

I would think such a question would be iron-clad and crystal clear in the BGA site rules, and I would expect that rule to be: "Asking for or receiving strategic advice from another member or player regarding a game in progress is unacceptable and can result in severe penalties."

There are various BGA rules aimed at protecting the fairness and integrity of games and the Elo ratings (not all of which make much sense or actually accomplish the goal), but having another person literally make a move for someone is, in my opinion, the most egregious breach of integrity and fairness.

Because there apparently is no clear rule about this, players are currently debating whether this is acceptable or not. Some players believe this is okay. How is this possibly okay? So, someone could just befriend a high-rated player and ask that player, "Hey, I'm in a tough spot, what should I do here on table [xxxxxxx]?"

Even when reporting a player, there is no option for "this player is giving or receiving advice from another member or player regarding a game in progress". The closest things is, "This player says inappropriate things in the chat", which is hardly descriptive of the seriousness of the actual issue.

Maybe this falls into the category of "Kingmaking," which is against the rules, but the definitions and applications of "kingmaking" are unclear. This should be clearly written to state, "Kingmaking can take several forms, including giving one player an advantage over the opponents by giving advice, whether by a player in the game or a bystander/observer of the game. This also includes soliciting or receiving advice from another player or member."

Other examples should be listed as well. It is far better to have a longer, more descriptive list on this subject than a vague short list.

In other threads, players discuss what types of "assistance" are allowed. BGA is also unclear on this. The rule simply says, "no software is allowed". Technically, "software" includes any computer program or app. BGA itself is "software". Is a player not allowed to review and study completed games? His or her own games? Other players' games? Watch online strategy videos or read online strategy guides? Use the in-game notes feature to track tiles or cards? Use personal notes that form a personal strategy guide or opening book? Install browser extensions to count or track publicly visible but difficult-to-remember information?

Some people interpret "no software allowed" as meaning, "You may not use a computer program to think and tell you which move to make", but that other forms of study and analysis are allowed, as long as the human player is ultimately making the decision on which move to make in the specific situation in question.

Clarity would be very helpful here.

There should be a long list of exactly what is allowed and what is not allowed. Ultimately, for some games, it is likely impossible to prevent all forms of cheating, but at the very least, blatant and obvious forms should be stopped and should be explicitly against the rules. Most players are not going to cheat. Most players will abide by the written rules.

And many players will do something that many other people may perceive as unfair but is not explicitly against the rules.
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Paddles
Posts: 81
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by Paddles »

FrankJones wrote: 04 May 2026, 14:30
I agree with Selene. My prior attempts to contact BGA support involved a frustrating menu that had options that did not match what I wanted to ask about. The way it is designed seems to be aimed at minimizing the extent to which BGA staff would need to respond to people's specific inquiries; instead attempting to route them through a series of menus that BGA hopes will answer their questions. This is understandable, given what is likely a small staff on a site that has a large number of members.

But that does not make it any less frustrating.

One of the most common issues I see discussed in the forums are rules issues. Rules of etiquette or rules of the BGA site, not specific game rules.

When people post issues in the general discussion forum, which we are currently using for this thread, members often reply with, "you should probably contact BGA support". But, where in that menu list is there an option to contact BGA regarding rules of fairness? In a very recent thread near the top of this same forum, there is a question of whether it is acceptable for a player to receive outside advice from another member or player for a current move in an in-progress game. No BGA staff has responded, and apparently the written rules are vague, hazy, or unclear about this.

I would think such a question would be iron-clad and crystal clear in the BGA site rules...
At risk of going off topic, there are two fundamental problems here:
  • It simply isn't possible to make an iron-clad set of rules that removes all ambiguity.
  • The closer you try to get to an iron-clad set of rules, the longer and more complex said list of rules will be, with the consequences that people won't read them, let alone understand them. Even if the rules are written in that person's native language, which isn't something we can assume.
Your own example about looking at previous games, using the BGA website (software) in a browser (also software), illustrates the complexity.

On rare occasions I've given advice in the open chat to an opponent who seems to be a new player and misunderstood a cruicial rule that will lead to both inevitable loss and a dull game. If I tell them what they need to do to have any chance of progressing or improving their position, am I suddenly guilty of cheating or kingmaking rather than helping someone learn and enjoy a game I already enjoy? When I've done this in a 3- or 4-player game, more often than not another experienced opponent has either agreed with my advice or added other advice to the new player, rather than telling me to be quiet and stop giving hints - suggesting we both value the joy of the game over jealously guarding every single ELO point.

Similarly, the contact pages can't categorise every single possible type of query. I agree that some of the categorisation is pretty poor, and the absence of "anything not covered here" is a shortcoming. But if all else fails, submit your question/problem under whatever seems to be the closest category and then see if they manage to sort it out. Then consider submitting the poor categorisation as a suggestion or a website bug too?
FrankJones
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by FrankJones »

Paddles wrote: 05 May 2026, 04:18

At risk of going off topic, there are two fundamental problems here:
  • It simply isn't possible to make an iron-clad set of rules that removes all ambiguity.
  • The closer you try to get to an iron-clad set of rules, the longer and more complex said list of rules will be, with the consequences that people won't read them, let alone understand them. Even if the rules are written in that person's native language, which isn't something we can assume.
Your own example about looking at previous games, using the BGA website (software) in a browser (also software), illustrates the complexity.
To me that seems like a questionable reason to be extremely vague instead of attempting to provide better clarity. It would not be difficult for people to understand a set of rules that says:

Allowed:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)

Not allowed:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)

Writing a full list doesn't necessarily equate to confusing or complex.
Paddles wrote: 05 May 2026, 04:18 On rare occasions I've given advice in the open chat to an opponent who seems to be a new player and misunderstood a cruicial rule that will lead to both inevitable loss and a dull game. If I tell them what they need to do to have any chance of progressing or improving their position, am I suddenly guilty of cheating or kingmaking rather than helping someone learn and enjoy a game I already enjoy? When I've done this in a 3- or 4-player game, more often than not another experienced opponent has either agreed with my advice or added other advice to the new player, rather than telling me to be quiet and stop giving hints - suggesting we both value the joy of the game over jealously guarding every single ELO point.
In a friendly mode game, sure, no problem. In an Elo ranked game, how is that fair to your opponents? At the very least, permission from the other players should be requested and granted. That advice could cause one of the other players to lose points in a specific scoring category and thus possibly lose the game.
Paddles wrote: 05 May 2026, 04:18 Similarly, the contact pages can't categorise every single possible type of query. I agree that some of the categorisation is pretty poor, and the absence of "anything not covered here" is a shortcoming. But if all else fails, submit your question/problem under whatever seems to be the closest category and then see if they manage to sort it out. Then consider submitting the poor categorisation as a suggestion or a website bug too?
Exactly; just add "something else" as a category.
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Gooorn
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by Gooorn »

Your answer is too PC and family-friendly. I think it is rather Psychological projection in which OP attributes their own internal thoughts, beliefs, emotions, experiences.
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sanlty
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by sanlty »

Even if you had a clear path to contact someone, no one at BGA will care about or even read your complaint. The community (at least the usual lurkers in the forums) here are about as helpful as they are official, not at all. They all have their own agendas, and they do their best to make sure if you pipe up about anything at all that you are silenced and/or made to feel stupid.
FrankJones
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by FrankJones »

sanlty wrote: 05 May 2026, 22:43 Even if you had a clear path to contact someone, no one at BGA will care about or even read your complaint. The community (at least the usual lurkers in the forums) here are about as helpful as they are official, not at all. They all have their own agendas, and they do their best to make sure if you pipe up about anything at all that you are silenced and/or made to feel stupid.
What sort of "helpfulness" is expected in response to a bizarre post complaining about a non-existent issue?

That said, If the ad in question were actually offensive, BGA support would be the people to contact. You are correct that the people who typically reply in forums cannot do anything about it, and likely wouldn't want to anyway even if they could.

The ad in question is colorful, artistic, and visually appealing (because of its artistic merit, not because of what the OP said, considering what the OP said is not even there).

Even if it were, I'm wondering why that would be "anti-family-values" as the OP claimed.
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Meeplelowda
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by Meeplelowda »

FrankJones wrote: 05 May 2026, 23:51 Even if it were, I'm wondering why that would be "anti-family-values" as the OP claimed.
I respect you enough to assume you aren't intentionally being coy. But I also assume you are an adult who exists in this world are aware that some people do not believe children should be exposed to depictions of nudity, or at the very least, want to control when their own children are exposed to it. Regardless of how you feel about it, I believe you can understand that other people feel that way.

BGA touts itself as a family-friendly environment. They say so every time they edit a post to remove profanity. So the OP is not coming out of left field for believing depictions of nudity would be inconsistent with this self-avowed characterization of the site.

So IF there actually had been a depiction of nudity in the artwork, I would have guided OP through the customer service funnel to a place where they could enter a free response message to BGA, like I've done in other circumstances where the BGA customer service funnel only has round holes and someone needed a place for a square peg.
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FrankJones
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by FrankJones »

I understand what you are saying. I just don't view a drawing of a woman with a minimally translucent shirt as "nudity.", and I also believe many societies have moved far away from such Victorian prudishness. I don't see a conflict between "family values" and what the OP described in the original post.

Sure, different people = different values. But to categorize the artwork as "nudity" is, to me, really straining the definition of the word.

Slightly translucent shirt is not the same as "nude person."

To categorize that artwork as "anti-family-values" is an opinion, one I do not share, and one I expect far fewer than a majority to share.

And, you are correct, I was not being coy. I realize that some people have extremely conservative views regarding "nudity", I genuinely do not understand those views. And I would welcome hearing an actual explanation instead of some vague hysterics of "OMG, a tiny portion of a nipple, think of the children."

I can think of any number of examples, but in many games, the theme involves stealing from other players, assassinating other players, and various other things that are clearly contrary to family values or morals or ethics, and yet I've never seen a word from anyone about that. But, a possible minimally translucent shirt on a woman is a problem? I don't get it.
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Meeplelowda
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by Meeplelowda »

FrankJones wrote: 06 May 2026, 00:55 Slightly translucent shirt is not the same as "nude person."
It isn't even that; it is (and was--it hasn't changed) completely opaque. But that's beside the point. From the OP's perspective, it was "a completely see-through top." So you can understand why they'd have an issue with that if it were true, even if you personally wouldn't have an issue with it? I'm not trying to debate whether they *should* feel that way. I'm just trying not to dismissively say they *don't* feel that way.

The reason I'm being so generous is that I think it's clear as day what is, and more importantly what is not, shown. But some people saw a blue dress and some saw white and gold, so I'm not going to try to convince someone to unsee what they think they perceived.
Last edited by Meeplelowda on 06 May 2026, 01:24, edited 1 time in total.
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FrankJones
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Re: No way to contact BGA to complain about inappropriate ad?

Post by FrankJones »

Meeplelowda wrote: 06 May 2026, 01:13
FrankJones wrote: 06 May 2026, 00:55 Slightly translucent shirt is not the same as "nude person."
It isn't even that; it is (and was--it hasn't changed) completely opaque. But that's beside the point. From the OP's perspective, it was "a completely see-through top." So you can understand why they'd have an issue with that if it were true, even if you personally wouldn't have an issue with it?
I can acknowledge that someone would have an issue with that. What I do not understand is why.

The OP feels strongly about this, obviously. I feel equally strongly that the OP's opinion makes no sense, and is in fact discriminatory and anti-woman.

So, the OP has one opinion, I have a different one. And if I think an opinion is absurd and poorly justified (or not justified at all), yes, I will call it out as such.
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