How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

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bidulpik
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 November 2011, 09:02

How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by bidulpik »

Hi,

how to create a game that use the backgammon doubling dice ?

Several games, 3, 5, 7, 11 with doubling dice enblaes ?

A score to reach ? 5000, 10000 ...

Any idea ?
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qwertasdfg
Posts: 297
Joined: 17 June 2013, 18:26

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by qwertasdfg »

A score to reach would be what backgammon is about
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bidulpik
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 November 2011, 09:02

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by bidulpik »

Hi,

the path to go for a player at start is 167
From the last 3à days games, the medium path to go for the loser player at the end of a game is 13.
The winner win 13 points, or more, if the doubling dice has been used.
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DoubleSpliff
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Joined: 05 April 2014, 12:46

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by DoubleSpliff »

if possible players can select how many games to play e.g. 3, 5, or 7. The player that wins the most wins the match. Perhaps winning by backgammon = 3 wins and winning by gammon = 2 wins
or
play to a pre-set or agreed number of points with additional points awarded for winning with a backgammon (x3) or a gammon (x2) and then multiplied by the value shown on the doubling dice.
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qwertasdfg
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Joined: 17 June 2013, 18:26

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by qwertasdfg »

bidulpik wrote:Hi,

the path to go for a player at start is 167
From the last 3à days games, the medium path to go for the loser player at the end of a game is 13.
The winner win 13 points, or more, if the doubling dice has been used.
The path the loser has still to go doesn't translate into points like that at all.

If the loser has taken out one of his stones the winner gets one point (multiplied with the doubling dice).

If the loser hasn't taken out any of his stones but has advanced all his stones out of his home quarter then the winner gets two points (with multiplication)

If the loser hasn't taken out any of his stones and still has at least one of his stones in his first quarter (or on the bridge ofc) then the winner gets three points, multiplied with the doubling die
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bidulpik
Posts: 79
Joined: 17 November 2011, 09:02

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by bidulpik »

ty qwertasdfg anf DoubleSpliff
that sounds good
1 point for winner if loser has taken a checker away
2 points for winner if loser has all checker home, but none away
3 points for winner if loser has a checker on board out of his home, and none away
all point multiplied by doubling dice.

and a menu at the start of the game to chose how many points you want for this game 3, 5, 7, 9, 11
doubling dice will not often be over 4 ^^

Ok, i think i have that I need to develop this part of the game.

It's going to be another game, with another name (to hard and tricky to add doublig dice, meta games etc... in basic backgammon).

I dont know how to name it
Backgammon doubling dice ?

any idea ?
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qwertasdfg
Posts: 297
Joined: 17 June 2013, 18:26

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by qwertasdfg »

If you want new people to find this game you need to call it backgammon. And change the name of the existing non-backgammon to something else.

Because otherwise every new player wanting to play backgammon will have the frustrating experience to not find the game they want to play
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Pedros
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Joined: 07 January 2015, 17:03

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by Pedros »

Seems to me there are (at least) 4 separate questions here, assuming that all regular backgammon players (ie regular away from this site) would like the cube to be available.

1. Should the game with the cube be the only one or should no cube still be an option? I don't have much preference here; if we go for cube only then a lot of people who've been playing only our present version will be at least puzzled and possibly upset. But a single rating system for both types of game might be undesirable.

Then, for games where the cube is in operation,

2. What about gammons etc? If we're going for the proper game, with the cube, it has to have gammons and backgammons at double and triple value. The purpose of the cube is skewed otherwise.

3. What should be the winning target? Somebody wrote "a target is what backgammon is all about". Not strictly true - I've no idea the balance between the number of games played tournament style and in money games, but the money game is certainly big and is about one game at a time. But clearly that won't sit with ELO here, so we're talking a target. With the base value of a game at 1, doubled if the cube is accepted and adjusted for gammons, 3 (which seems to be a typical target people talk about) - seems very low. Too quick to get to that crucial game where one player is so far behind he takes any double because he has nothing to lose.

In Hearts here there are a variety of targets - Long game etc. I would prefer a similar selection here - play to 3 or 5 points at least, and a longer game at 7 doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

4. And almost finally, what about the on-site mechanics of the game? This to me is the trickiest of all.

Look at it this way. I make my move. Only then does my opponent get to decide whether to double or not. After his decision the dice are rolled and it comes back to my turn. If that has to be done every shake of the dice the game will be slowed down enormously (contrary to the usual spirit of backgammon.) And if I say "Double" we have to wait again for the opponent to respond. I don't know how this would be coded, being different to any other games I know on the site, but I would suggest the following:-

Each player has, apart from the usual choices to press, a toggle switch saying "I want/don't want the opportunity to double." It would have to be possible to toggle this switch even when it's your opponents turn (taking account of a very lucky roll you've just had and a poor one he has.) This is where I see a possible problem with the site mechanisms (although Puerto Rico amongst others has situations where all players can play at once.) But either player (if the cube is in their possession) can switch this to "Doubling On"; they then get the opportunity after their opponent's turn and before their dice are revealed. That would still be a bit slow, but far less so than if it happened every shake of the dice!

But finally of all, the rating system should take no account whatsoever of the winning margin in one game. Each game is either won or lost (gamons apart), and that should be reflected in the scoring.
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SevenOfNine
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Location: Germany

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by SevenOfNine »

Regarding 1: the game without cube is not backgammon.

Regarding 2: yes, correct.

Regarding 3: typical target is 11. Typically a "backgammon" result is rare, as is a cube number larger than 4.

Regarding 4: I don't get the problem; the game does not get slower. The player to play next has the option to double, before throwing his dice. Only if he does, the opponent has to respond (accept or reject), but since doubling is rare in comparison to throwing dice, this does not really make the game slower. On the contrary: since many games end immediately with the first double, overall it shortens the average game.
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Pedros
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Joined: 07 January 2015, 17:03

Re: How to Backgammon with doubling dice ? advice welcome

Post by Pedros »

In the Middle East, where the game is said by many to have originated, BG is played without the cube. I don't recommend it, and would choose not to play it; but there it is. I'd have no objections if the option were not available, but I suspect a fair number of players here might prefer it that way.

But I have to seriously disagree with SevenofNine over the speed of the game. As it is at present the next player does not have any time to Double - the dice are rolled as soon as the previous player has played; the cube would demand a pause there so the next player can say "No double, carry on". In realtime games the delay might not be serious, but in turn-based it could almost double the time taken to complete a game. My suggestion, that the player can turn the delay off for a time (if say he is clearly behind in the game) would avoid this delay.
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