One for the full-tuck fans

[Andrei3009]

Wow, you crushed someone who had a 180 ELO and a 46% win rate. You are 600 ELO with an 82% win rate.

And we are supposed to impressed why?

I think you've missed the point of the post. What matters is not that he won, but how he did it. I recommend watching the game if you haven't already.

Does it really matter when his opponent was garbage? If he was going against an opponent of similar skill, there might be more to glean from.

Here? All I see is a bad player playing badly and sealing their fate in the first turn and a top-of-the-world player doing their thing.

I see a rare opportunity for a good score on a rare strategy and its implementation, albeit with a little help from the opponent.

Wingspan can become a bit stale, especially at a high level. I would've definitely shared a similar game if I had one.

[Andrei3009]

It's a fascinating game, I wouldn't risk doing that from the beginning of the game. I really respect that

In addition, this is the largest number of cards tucked and bonus card points that I have seen in one game. And the biggest score in the 2P game!

@Ceaseless covered plenty of ground here. I'll just add that there really isn't any unusual risk here once the crow hits. It can be a risk to start wetland with two tuck-and-lays and not ever find food access. Of course here the phoebe would (but shouldn't) help with that.

I wouldn't think of taking Bushtit on the first move with your hand. I would keep drawing cards from the deck until I found something that produces food and\or until the opponent gives me worms.

I noticed a few suboptimal actions while watching the replay, but with your lead, I wouldn't worry about it unless you specifically went for points record

[illy831]

Would definitely take the Bushtit because that gives either player (w/Phoebe, or w/Crow or even Blackbird) a viable-to-excellent wetland. If nothing else, you deny your opponent the chance to do serious damage with it. Not to mention, it's a nice bird to help both EOR 1 & 4.

OTOH, continually drawing can be fruitless and turn-wasting if you are spending turns *needing* to turn up a particular type of card to get the rest of your game going. That bird may come, or may not.

To Archisian's query, this game is nicely illustrative of how powerful drawing birds can be, provided you do something else worthwhile at the same time. It's also a good showcase for recognizing when your opponent has very specific needs (in this case, a second food-producing bird other than the crow) and denying them a solution (Phoebe should not have been activated, and then OP might have been slowed and needed to develop forest).

[Andrei3009]

Would definitely take the Bushtit because that gives either player (w/Phoebe, or w/Crow or even Blackbird) a viable-to-excellent wetland. If nothing else, you deny your opponent the chance to do serious damage with it. Not to mention, it's a nice bird to help both EOR 1 & 4.

OTOH, continually drawing can be fruitless and turn-wasting if you are spending turns *needing* to turn up a particular type of card to get the rest of your game going. That bird may come, or may not.

To Archisian's query, this game is nicely illustrative of how powerful drawing birds can be, provided you do something else worthwhile at the same time. It's also a good showcase for recognizing when your opponent has very specific needs (in this case, a second food-producing bird other than the crow) and denying them a solution (Phoebe should not have been activated, and then OP might have been slowed and needed to develop forest).

By food producing bird I meant forest birds as well. In 2-4 cards, there's a decent chance to find something for the forest, or even better — something that produces food outside the forest, or a cheap way to draw cards to strengthen the wetland.

I consider Bushtit is a below‑average bird (it's slitly better this game because eor), especially when it costs the same food as a Blackbird and Blackbird being tuck and lay egg bird himself. Even if I get a crow with it, I would much rather put the crow in the grassland. On average, that is much more reliable than a potential wetland tuck engine.

[FrankJones]

Wow, you crushed someone who had a 180 ELO and a 46% win rate. You are 600 ELO with an 82% win rate.

And we are supposed to impressed why?

I think you've missed the point of the post. What matters is not that he won, but how he did it. I recommend watching the game if you haven't already.

Does it really matter when his opponent was garbage? If he was going against an opponent of similar skill, there might be more to glean from.

Here? All I see is a bad player playing badly and sealing their fate in the first turn and a top-of-the-world player doing their thing.

You've played 1500 games and are barely above 300 Elo, and you're calling someone else "garbage"?

[Archisian]

I think you've missed the point of the post. What matters is not that he won, but how he did it. I recommend watching the game if you haven't already.

Does it really matter when his opponent was [redactged]? If he was going against an opponent of similar skill, there might be more to glean from.

Here? All I see is a [redacted] player playing badly and sealing their fate in the first turn and a top-of-the-world player doing their thing.

You've played 1500 games and are barely above 300 Elo, and you're calling someone else "garbage"?

Yes, I recognize that I'm [redacted]. Doesn't diminish that the other player was too.

[Archisian]

To Archisian's query, this game is nicely illustrative of how powerful drawing birds can be, provided you do something else worthwhile at the same time. It's also a good showcase for recognizing when your opponent has very specific needs (in this case, a second food-producing bird other than the crow) and denying them a solution (Phoebe should not have been activated, and then OP might have been slowed and needed to develop forest).

That's nice and all, but it's clear from the replay that the opponent had no idea what they were doing and played poorly. I don't see what grand picture we are supposed to learn here other than the fact that if the opponent was better skilled, the game could have gone the other way. Not drawing the Bushtit and the constant activation of the Eastern Phoebe's ability from the start of the game was the decisive factor. The opponent literally lost on Turn 1.

[FrankJones]

To Archisian's query, this game is nicely illustrative of how powerful drawing birds can be, provided you do something else worthwhile at the same time. It's also a good showcase for recognizing when your opponent has very specific needs (in this case, a second food-producing bird other than the crow) and denying them a solution (Phoebe should not have been activated, and then OP might have been slowed and needed to develop forest).

That's nice and all, but it's clear from the replay that the opponent had no idea what they were doing and played poorly. I don't see what grand picture we are supposed to learn here other than the fact that if the opponent was better skilled, the game could have gone the other way. Not drawing the Bushtit and the constant activation of the Eastern Phoebe's ability from the start of the game was the decisive factor. The opponent literally lost on Turn 1.

You are not "trash" and neither is the opponent in that game. Please dial down this inappropriate language. It is not adding anything to the conversation.

What is to be gleaned from this game is an illustration of an unusual wetland engine, which is very rare in the base game without the power 5. The game result is also interesting and noteworthy. Obviously not to you, but for someone who sees no value in this game, you're sure investing a lot of time talking about it. Could you have scored those 131 points and 48 tucks, even with the opponent activating the Phoebe? I doubt it, which means, there's a learning opportunity here for you.

Or, you can just keep saying unpleasant things about the opponent. The choice is yours, though, if you enjoy not being banned, you might want to do some deleting.

When people kindly suggest you tone down the insults, thyme are trying to help you avoid being moderated.

[Archisian]

To Archisian's query, this game is nicely illustrative of how powerful drawing birds can be, provided you do something else worthwhile at the same time. It's also a good showcase for recognizing when your opponent has very specific needs (in this case, a second food-producing bird other than the crow) and denying them a solution (Phoebe should not have been activated, and then OP might have been slowed and needed to develop forest).

That's nice and all, but it's clear from the replay that the opponent had no idea what they were doing and played poorly. I don't see what grand picture we are supposed to learn here other than the fact that if the opponent was better skilled, the game could have gone the other way. Not drawing the Bushtit and the constant activation of the Eastern Phoebe's ability from the start of the game was the decisive factor. The opponent literally lost on Turn 1.

You are not "trash" and neither is the opponent in that game. Please dial down this inappropriate language. It is not adding anything to the conversation.

What is to be gleaned from this game is an illustration of an unusual wetland engine, which is very rare in the base game without the power 5. The game result is also interesting and noteworthy. Obviously not to you, but for someone who sees no value in this game, you're sure investing a lot of time talking about it. Could you have scored those 131 points and 48 tucks, even with the opponent activating the Phoebe? I doubt it, which means, there's a learning opportunity here for you.

Or, you can just keep saying unpleasant things about the opponent. The choice is yours, though, if you enjoy not being banned, you might want to do some deleting.

When people kindly suggest you tone down the insults, thyme are trying to help you avoid being moderated.

I gave an opinion, people responded, and I just responded back. I'm not super-invested in this particular game. It's just something to talk about when I'm bored at the moment. I noticed something I found to be odd and gave my opinion about it, that's it.

As for my assessment of the other player, fine. I'll delete those comments since someone could get their feelings hurt about it. I, however, was not personally attacking the other player, only their play in that particular game, which I believe was very bad. But in your reply to me, I know you think I'm a [redacted] player as well based on my ELO and win rate. No amount of niceties is going to make me feel better about it when the real message is underneath. I was just telling the honest truth about the other player. But I guess politeness is more important.

Post-edit: I don't have the option to delete, so I just redacted the potentially offensive words.

[illy831]

By food producing bird I meant forest birds as well. In 2-4 cards, there's a decent chance to find something for the forest, or even better — something that produces food outside the forest, or a cheap way to draw cards to strengthen the wetland.

I consider Bushtit is a below‑average bird (it's slitly better this game because eor), especially when it costs the same food as a Blackbird and Blackbird being tuck and lay egg bird himself. Even if I get a crow with it, I would much rather put the crow in the grassland. On average, that is much more reliable than a potential wetland tuck engine.

Oh, interesting! Perhaps I overrate the bushtit. I was thinking mainly it's important to have two wetland birds with useful powers, if the plan after that relies on needing to draw because that lets you draw frequently without wasting turns. Also there's value in maxing one zone when you can...which to the degree it happened in this game, ending up with two tuck-and-draw to stack was admittedly good fortune.

I don't see what grand picture we are supposed to learn here other than the fact that if the opponent was better skilled, the game could have gone the other way.

I think the power of going all-in on the wetland is not obvious to newer players; it certainly wasn't for me before I saw it in action. The max score w/o feeding challenge thread yielded a similar insight: at first, it seemed like the solution would involve a strong meadow. But what's even better than laying eggs? Playing great birds.

If nothing else, it's pretty neat to see how far it can take you when the stars align, and more than any other play a powerful wetland gives you many shots at lining up the stars. But as pointed out, it's not always the case that you can sensibly play this kind of game.