Consecutive Wins

[FrankJones]

Note the 'either automatically' part from my first comment about this.

I wrote, "it's not something the developers can do anything about."

This was your reply:
"Why? They could easily be given access. Or they could also contact people who have access. "

In other words, you are saying we (the developers) could be given access, or we (the developers) could contact people who have access.
That's very generous of you to volunteer other people's time and labor.

If you wish for this to be done automatically, then the developers have no need to be involved, but when I pointed out that these "bugs" should not be sent to the developers in the first place, your reply was something along the lines of, "why not? An Elo bug is still a bug".

Once a bug is reported, it should be resolved completely. My issue here is that that won't happen unless the player also contacts support in addition to the bug report. Contacting support by the player should not be necessary. Possible solutions: (1) devs resolve the remaining part, (2) devs forward it to support who resolve it, (3) support is contacted automatically and then resolves it, (4) the remaining part of the bug is resolved automatically. From the outside, all four looks the same, and I am happy whichever happens. That said, we agree that (4) is the best due to lower manual workload.

I did not commit any strawmans, I merely addressed your points by replying to them.

In response to this post:
I'll try explaining this again. Bugs that have nothing to do with the code for a specific game are not part of that game's developer's' responsibilities.

Contacting BGA for support is necessary, and I'm not sure why I need to keep explaining this to you. Individual game developers do not have the authority to modify Karma or Elo, nor should they. That's exactly why BGA has general support staff.

Your solitions:

1) If the BGA site is down, or the BGA framework or database causes an error, there is nothing the game developer(s) can do.
2) Asking the devs to manually forward endless "bug" reports is absurd.
3) Yes, there should be a way to contact BGA support directly when there is a problem that falls into the categories that game developers do not have the authority to handle. This seems highly unlikely, otherwise it would already exist.
4) I am not sure what you mean by number 4. It is identical to number 1 on your list.

You want a solution system in which literally every problem is fully resolved, all the time, on a website that costs $0 or $4 a month and is largely run by volunteers? You actually believe this is realistic? In what other business or industry does this occur?

You're aware that some well-known companies sells single games that cost 3-6 months worth of a premium subscription here, and yet those games have endless bugs that never get resolved, no communication from support or developers, no game database, no leaderboards, etc. ?

[FrankJones]

Edit 2: OK, I checked back, and

The workload of staff and volunteers is something you brought up (and seem to have riled yourself up over it), but I (or a random player if you will) should not have to care about any of that.

this part was indeed poorly worded, and I can see how it came across badly. Sorry about that. That said, the workload is still something you brought up, and it derailed the debate from my original point.

Was that an attempt at an apology?

I brought up the workload of volunteers because it is relevant. Because volunteers are paid zero dollars, and you are suggesting (demanding?) that these volunteers do more. And you callously said you shouldn't care or have to be bothered hearing about the hard work they do.

That is not derailing the point. That is the point.

[h_illes]

I'll try explaining this again. Bugs that have nothing to do with the code for a specific game are not part of that game's developer's' responsibilities.

According to the emphasised part here:

It's not even just that. If a player gets their ELO calculated wrong (as for OP), that's a bug, right? Well, if they report it through the bug report system, even if they mark it as not specific to a game, they will NOT get their ELO fixed. For that, apparently they have to contact support in addition to the bug report. Why the player needs to go through an extra hoop for that is baffling. If whoever receives the bug report does not have the proper access to correct all aspects of the bug, the rest of the job should be forwarded to others who do, either automatically or by those who only resolve part of the bug.

no game dev will receive that bug report. Instead, a BGA dev will get that report. Are they volunteers too?

[FrankJones]

I have an idea.

Game developers should write and repair the code for the specific game. For example, Terraforming Mars. The 3 active members of the development team for that game perform this task very well.

BGA staff and BGA support should handle issues that have nothing to do with the Terraforming Mars code. Because, we who develop and maintain Terraforming Mars do not maintain and repair the code for the BGA website.

The main flaw, on which I think we agree, is that the link to report a bug from a specific game always goes to the specific game's bug page, when for some specific categories, it should go directly to BGA support.

Everything else, including your seemingly entitled opinions about what you expect volunteers to do, is irrelevant. If you want to help, offer to volunteer to join the development team for a popular game and offer to manually sort the endless bug reports about things having nothing to do with the code for the game, and then manually forward them to the appropriate people.

Or you can just continue to whine about how it ruins your day to hear the volunteers requesting not to have even more work dumped in their laps.

I suppose you have made it clear which path you intend to choose.

[FrankJones]

no game dev will receive that bug report. Instead, a BGA dev will get that report. Are they volunteers too?

But the developers do receive those reports, many times a day (For a popular game like Terraforming Mars, anyway).

I do not know the volunteer or pay structure of BGA support. I am not privy to that information.

Just so you know, even if a bug occurs, BGA does not modify or alter the game results or the Elo changes. The only time Karma or Elo are modified are site-wide outrages and server outages that effect the entire website.

The game developer does not have the authority to modify the results of a game, and BGA staff likely will not have the specific game expertise to analyze a game and figure out who "should" have won if not for the bug. Even if they did, you expect this to be done at the price structure currently in place?

People already complain about the "high" cost of a premium membership. Are you seriously suggesting implementing widespread changes that might double or triple that cost? Are you willing to pay that cost? I would, but most people probably would not. I would happily pay $50 a month for my premium membership. It would still be the best value of anything I spend money on each month. But last time I checked, I didn't see a long line of people queueing up to pay that amount.

[h_illes]

The main flaw, on which I think we agree, is that the link to report a bug from a specific game always goes to the specific game's bug page, when for some specific categories, it should go directly to BGA support.

Yes, that was essentially my point. Thank you! I suggest we agree that the rest was a misunderstanding.

People already complain about the "high" cost of a premium membership. Are you seriously suggesting implementing widespread changes that might double or triple that cost? Are you willing to pay that cost? I would, but most people probably would not.

I would gladly pay more for better service. But I also understand that many others won't, so this is not likely to change. In any case, I listed some ideas that would improve the site at virtually no cost. (You did, too.)

The game developer does not have the authority to modify the results of a game, and BGA staff likely will not have the specific game expertise to analyze a game and figure out who "should" have won if not for the bug.

None of those would be required to fix OP's ELO.

[FrankJones]

Fixing Elo depends on how and why the Elo was wrongly calculated.

Are you speaking from any sort of experience? I have developer access for a very popular game here, and I cannot modify the Elo result of a game.

Have we even confirmed that the Elo was not calculated properly?

[h_illes]

Have we even confirmed that the Elo was not calculated properly?

It's straightforward to check even by hand. I did it, and it's exactly as OP described. On the other hand, the bug report was not acknowledged by BGA yet.

Are you speaking from any sort of experience?

This: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=107164 (but being a game dev won't help here).

[FrankJones]

That is indeed very weird. -1 Arena points for a win !? As you said, that should not happen.

1) I do hope BGA fixes that.
2) I agree with you, there should be a direct link from the game page: "Contact BGA about an Elo or Arena points miscalculation."
3) The best way for this to be handled is to remove the developer from the equation entirely by having BGA implementing steps 1 and 2 above.

[FrankJones]

Here is what I am wondering:

Your Elo was so much higher than the opponent's that the Calculated Elo gain may have been close to zero. And then, if the consecutive wins penalty (10% for the 3rd consecutive win) was applied, that may have resulted in a calculation that took the result from 0 to -1?

If that's how the -1 result occurred, that's bizarre. I've never seen anything to indicate that the consecutive wins penalty applies to Arena points. The consecutive wins penalty should not apply to Arena at all (not even the Elo) because Arena pairings are random in the first place.