Players out of time - code of conduct

[Jellby]

The time settings are visible when you join the table.
The time left to each player is visible while playing the game.
Every player is allowed to use their time as they see fit, and run the clock down to 0 every turn, if that's what they want.
Every player is allowed to expel any other player who's out of time. Running out of time is a losing move and anyone can take advantage of it. It does not ruin the game any more than playing a winning card.

[Big Bad Lex]

There is a problem with the time period allocated and time zones. It is fine if all players are in the same time zone, BUT, if a European player is in turn order after (say) a player from the USA there can be an 8 hour time delay. So if a European takes a turn at 10.00PM and other players take their turns shortly after, the North American will take their turn around 3.00PM their time. The following European goes to bed promptly after taking a turn but then wakes up and logs on at say 9.00PM and 10 hours have been deducted from their time allocation. Over a week they will have lost 3 days of time just because they were asleep.

Other players in the same game who might be losing, then see the red timer as an opportunity to snag a win and boot the 'late' guy out. This has now happened to me 4 times in tournaments for loss of ranking points and time penalties. In open play now, I just won't join if there is an American listed.

Could not a 'sleep' allowance be introduced where each player does not incur time loss from say 23.00hrs to o7.00hrs in their time zone to reflect the fact that they aren't being slow, just asleep.

[FrankJones]

If the game is at the final move and the score is:
Player A: 100
Player B: 50
Player C: 40
Player D: 20

and player D expels player C because player C is overtime, I consider that a "ruined game".

Whether that constitutes an unfair or unsportsmanlike act is purely subjective, and obviously, opinions vary.
Personally, I look at it through the lens of, "How would I feel if this happened to me when I am player A?"
My answer to that question would affect how I act in this situation when I am player C or player D.

Also, note the obvious possibility of collusion. Suppose player C is at 100 Elo. Player C could message player D and say, "I'll just let me clock go negative so you can expel me."

Player A, through no fault of his or her own and without any control over the situation, is deprived of an earned win.
Player D avoids a loss and gets a cheap tie or win, possibly gaining completely undeserved Elo.
Player C gets a meaningless Elo loss and extra 10-point Elo loss, but loses nothing because Elo does not drop below 100.

Player C loses Karma and plays a bunch of 1-minute games and immediately restores Karma to 100.

[Jellby]

Either join games with playing hours that match your activity pattern, or join games that give more than 8 hours per turn (so 2 moves per day or less).

For tournaments, join tournaments that give you enough time to play your game even in the "worst case" scenario (or with playing hours).

[Jellby]

Sure expelling is not a nice thing and no one wants to get to that point. But the "original sin" is running out of time. That is the culprit. (And the way multi-player elo and tournaments work).

Collusion is possible in many other ways. Just giving all players infinite time because no one wants to "ruin the game" is not a solution. What if the player who's in the lead runs out of time? Is it "fair" to expel them? Not infinite time? How much? 1 min? 10 min? 1 hour? Why not "the time everyone agreed on when the game started"?

[FrankJones]

Sure expelling is not a nice thing and no one wants to get to that point. But the "original sin" is running out of time. That is the culprit. (And the way multi-player elo and tournaments work).

Collusion is possible in many other ways. Just giving all players infinite time because no one wants to "ruin the game" is not a solution. What if the player who's in the lead runs out of time? Is it "fair" to expel them? Not infinite time? How much? 1 min? 10 min? 1 hour? Why not "the time everyone agreed on when the game started"?

Oh, I agree with you 100%. I am definitely not advocating for infinite time.

My post was merely to illustrate my own concerns. And to explain my way of dealing with those concerns: I avoid putting myself in that position. I don't play tournaments at all, because I think the formats are silly. And I don't want to have the above situation occur. (Or the other silly one where no one tuns out of time but the game does not finish in time, and the player with the oldest account "wins" the round. )

So, I play 2-player Arena. I play 2-player Ranked non-arena. And I play multiplayer games in friendly mode.

[Cile]

a game that is 95% complete

Note how you had to invent an extra condition to make it sound bad. We've gone from "expelling a player is always rude" to "the game is 95% complete".

And yes, I used pronouns in my hypothetical example of a situation. To claim the that the statement "I created a table" is ego centric just because it uses the word "I" is the height of absurdity. Why is it perfectly acceptable for you to dictate how I spend my time, but ego centric for me to decide for myself?

[Ceaseless]

There is a problem with the time period allocated and time zones. It is fine if all players are in the same time zone, BUT, if a European player is in turn order after (say) a player from the USA there can be an 8 hour time delay. So if a European takes a turn at 10.00PM and other players take their turns shortly after, the North American will take their turn around 3.00PM their time. The following European goes to bed promptly after taking a turn but then wakes up and logs on at say 9.00PM and 10 hours have been deducted from their time allocation. Over a week they will have lost 3 days of time just because they were asleep.

Other players in the same game who might be losing, then see the red timer as an opportunity to snag a win and boot the 'late' guy out. This has now happened to me 4 times in tournaments for loss of ranking points and time penalties. In open play now, I just won't join if there is an American listed.

Could not a 'sleep' allowance be introduced where each player does not incur time loss from say 23.00hrs to o7.00hrs in their time zone to reflect the fact that they aren't being slow, just asleep.

Tables already provide sleep times. Join the ones that use yours. Players can't host time expectations for a game if it kept changing based on who was in it with weird combination effects.

[Cile]

If the game is at the final move and the score is:
Player A: 100
Player B: 50
Player C: 40
Player D: 20

and player D expels player C because player C is overtime, I consider that a "ruined game".

I agree, and it's an excellent reason not to continue playing with someone who is habitually slow and has an expired clock.

The vast majority of the time for me when a player goes into the red I knew they were going to days ahead of time. It's not a case of "the game was going fine and now suddenly on the last turn they ran out of time", it's "since the start of the game they have been eating into their time bank every single turn." If someone is in the red during the first round it is not worth dealing with their slow play only to risk someone in the last round booting them in order to avoid the loss.

When I see this coming I suggest abandoning the game and tell the table "Just so everyone is aware, I won't keep a game going with an expired clock. There have been too many instances of someone with a red clock getting kicked in the final turn in order for someone to avoid a loss. If the game isn't going to finish anyway we should just abandon it now."

Player C could message player D and say, "I'll just let me clock go negative so you can expel me."

Note that in this situation Player C could also just leave the game for the same result.

[Jellby]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that I'll expel everyone the moment they hit 0:00. I'm just saying that I'm (and of course everyone else is) allowed to do that and nobody should call me names because of that. If I'm enjoying the game, I may wait some more time. I may give extra time to a player I find friendly, or if I'm entertained with something else, or if I see they're struggling with the interface, rules, etc., or for any number of reasons. But if I'm bored by the game, or if the player has been annoying, or if I'm tired and want to go to sleep, or, again, for any number of reasons (including getting a cheap win), I may expel when I'm allowed to. And I of course accept anyone can do it on me too.

If the option to automatically kick out players existed, I might use it some times, and not other times. It would just remove any arbitrariness and ambiguity about when or why to expel. Also, if it existed, I think it would be nice to also provide the option to (by agreement of all other players) ignore the time-out on specific occasions, but that's a different issue.