Players out of time - code of conduct

[Cile]

That sounds like victim blaming. Being at the origin of a causal chain of events doesn't make you responsible for the choice of the offender. No one forced them to kick out someone, they themselves made that choice.

So when someone goes to jail for a crime is that the fault of Jury?

[tbhp]

You are defending users who are using obvious flimsy excuses to justify their behavior.

Golly, I’d love it if you could point out where I was defending anybody. I said your argument makes no sense and your response is to double-down with attacks on me? I think this once again shows that you aren’t listening to what others have to say, you have no interest in a conversation, you just want to spout off and be right.

If you were on my side, you would see that the same sort of logic applies also outside of tournament games. This talk about whether it's tournament or non-tournament is a distraction from the issue at hand.

[tbhp]

That sounds like victim blaming. Being at the origin of a causal chain of events doesn't make you responsible for the choice of the offender. No one forced them to kick out someone, they themselves made that choice.

So when someone goes to jail for a crime is that the fault of Jury?

This is not the right analogy. Earlier in this thread I explained that the kick out function is a bit similar to nuclear weapons. It exists as a threat, to encourage people to behave well, but this all becomes pointless if you choose to actually put the threat into action and destroy everything.

When a jury sends a criminal to jail, they aren't affecting anyone but the criminal. Putting them in jail serves to preserve the thing we want to protect, which is the general well being of society. When you kick out someone, you are destroying the very thing the system aims to protect, which is the integrity of the game being played.

[BarnardsStar]

If you were on my side, you would see that the same sort of logic applies also outside of tournament games. This talk about whether it's tournament or non-tournament is a distraction from the issue at hand.

I haven’t seen you make any argument that applies outside of tournament games. Did you have another argument besides this?

Like I said to the other user, the time you agree on is the maximum duration of the game. The time that is allotted to each player has no relation to the duration you signed up for.

Outside of tournaments, the table lasts as long as somebody takes a move once every … something like 35 or 40 days. Some games have many hundreds of turns. The theoretical maximum they could last is measured in decades. Is that how long we should plan on games lasting?

[tbhp]

Outside of tournaments, the table lasts as long as somebody takes a move once every … something like 35 or 40 days. Some games have many hundreds of turns. The theoretical maximum they could last is measured in decades. Is that how long we should plan on games lasting?

But people would run out of time long before the 40 days.

When you start a casual game, you should have in mind the maximum duration that the game can last without anyone ever going out of time. So basically, imagine everyone lets their clock run down and only make their moves when they have one second left.

If you kick out someone before the game has lasted for as long as this theoretical duration, it's disingenuous to say "I didn't sign up for this duration", when in reality it's totally possible that the game could have lasted that long without anyone ever offending.

Yes, some games can last very long in theory. But in this case you should be prepared that the game can theoretically last that long. It's disingenuous to use that justification, of all things, as the reason you are kicking out. We all know it's not the real reason.

It would be more honest to say "even though I know the game can last months in theory, I was hoping that the other player would play fast enough that it only lasts days. Upon seeing that they were playing slower than I'd like, I got bored and decided to expel them".

[BarnardsStar]

When you start a casual game, you should have in mind the maximum duration that the game can last without anyone ever going out of time. So basically, imagine everyone lets their clock run down and only make their moves when they have one second left.

If you kick out someone before the game has lasted for as long as this theoretical duration, it's disingenuous to say "I didn't sign up for this duration", when in reality it's totally possible that the game could have lasted that long without anyone ever offending.

Got it, so when I sit down to play a game I need to figure out how many turns the game could possibly go (“this game is usually 300 turns but it could be as much as 500, so 500 it is”), divide that by the table rate (“I’m playing at 4x/day, so that’s 125 days”), figure out when that time happens (“125 days from now is September 28”), and then I can freely kick people out at point? I’ll start setting reminders in my calendar.

[Curulin]

Thank you for an interesting discussion.
To clarify 2 things:
1.If someone writes in the game channel that he can't play the next day for a certain reason, I have absolutely no problem with them going over time. My problem are players who neither give reasons nor apologize for being late.
2. The game I play the most is Ark Nova. I've tried to play 2 parallel games, but I keep mixing them up in my head, e.g. going for predators in one game but I need them in the other game, so I'm only playing one at a time. Having to wait for my turn for 2 days then means not playing Ark Nova for 2 days.

My takeaway from this discussion:
I'll look at the reputation of a player running out of time. If the reputation is spotless, I'll be more lenient, if the reputation shows someone going out of time and/or quitting all the time, I'll be more trigger-happy.
And before kicking someone, I'll ask in the channel what the other players think about it.

What I would like is the ability to make players out of time to only skip one turn, so the game can continue normally, but while this would work for most games, there are many where this is not possible. Having them do a random move would be an option, but retroactively programming this into all those games is a lot of effort and won't happen.

[Cile]

When a jury sends a criminal to jail, they aren't affecting anyone but the criminal.

They are affecting their family. According to your argument it is the Jury's fault for splitting up a family and removing their source of income. The children should be blaming the Jury for their parent going to jail.

Putting them in jail serves to preserve the thing we want to protect, which is the general well being of society. When you kick out someone, you are destroying the very thing the system aims to protect, which is the integrity of the game being played.

The turn timers are part of the integrity of the game. It has already been violated by the person who ignored the time limits of the table.

[tbhp]

When you start a casual game, you should have in mind the maximum duration that the game can last without anyone ever going out of time. So basically, imagine everyone lets their clock run down and only make their moves when they have one second left.

If you kick out someone before the game has lasted for as long as this theoretical duration, it's disingenuous to say "I didn't sign up for this duration", when in reality it's totally possible that the game could have lasted that long without anyone ever offending.

Got it, so when I sit down to play a game I need to figure out how many turns the game could possibly go (“this game is usually 300 turns but it could be as much as 500, so 500 it is”), divide that by the table rate (“I’m playing at 4x/day, so that’s 125 days”), figure out when that time happens (“125 days from now is September 28”), and then I can freely kick people out at point? I’ll start setting reminders in my calendar.

Well, you don't have to do those calculations if you don't plan on kicking out people and being disingenuous about it. Most of us don't. But if someone is gonna be like "I didn't sign up for a game that could be that long", they should have the math to back it up.

[Cile]

.
It would be more honest to say "even though I know the game can last months in theory, I was hoping that the other player would play fast enough that it only lasts days. Upon seeing that they were playing slower than I'd like, I got bored and decided to expel them".

So it is inappropriate to join a table and expect people to play faster than the posted table speed, but perfectly acceptable to play slower than the posted table speed?