Discussion on AI Central (rebalance, when to play, the works)

[landus]

The above post has got to be ragebait (…)

I think most of their posts are. I left them to it.

[ft029]

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=857606526

I played a game earlier today against someone 550 rated (higher than lytical ) who gets AI gen 4, with a strong point luna start. Meanwhile I am ecoline keeping 2 cards, one of which is kelp farming. Their setup still gets obliterated by 15 points in gen 10. Granted, they made some pretty serious errors in the midgame, but I made a few mistakes too. They have big asteroid but playing it is just way too expensive for them and isn't good development for the engine player, and makes the game end sooner.

Engine is not the be all end all, is the lesson for any intermediate players here looking to improve their game.

[Lytical]

When i say engine I meant engine moves, it sounds like to me he should have just ate or toss big asteroid with that tempo. And i said specifically, against ecoline is different bc the math for ecoline is different.

[Lytical]

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=857606526

I played a game earlier today against someone 550 rated (higher than lytical ) who gets AI gen 4, with a strong point luna start. Meanwhile I am ecoline keeping 2 cards, one of which is kelp farming. Their setup still gets obliterated by 15 points in gen 10. Granted, they made some pretty serious errors in the midgame, but I made a few mistakes too. They have big asteroid but playing it is just way too expensive for them and isn't good development for the engine player, and makes the game end sooner.

Engine is not the be all end all, is the lesson for any intermediate players here looking to improve their game.

For your opening i will go ecoline huge asteroid DONATION, keep media archive and kelp, bc we ecoline need no cities.

[jaymc1130]

Since we have a topic on Earth Cat, it's only fitting we start one for AI.

1) How OP is it? Why AI is so influential?

2) How would you like to balance it.

3) What would you take over it in draft and in what conditions.

4) When would you play it when you have it in hand? If you have a perfect combo ready to be released but run into AI, would you delay your combo to drop AI?

1) AIC is very strong, but it's not as strong as most people believe and the fact that it is perhaps the most overrated card in the game largely stems from 2 player bias and base plus prelude format bias. In all expansions play it's often a card I refuse to play (pluto trades ftw) simply because it's so expensive to develop and in 4 and 5 player games it's often game losing to play it at all (caveat for Interplanetary Cinematics that can play it off all that juicy steel gen 1).

2) I would balance it by doing nothing to it. It's already in a good spot balance wise, even if it is a fundamentally powerful card.

3) I like AIC in situations where I can play it relatively early for a low investment cost and hands where I'm relatively rich (AIC in the hands of a poor man is a great way to spend the entire game spinning your wheels and never being able to play all the cards you draw. AIC is a rich man's favorite win more piece) and trying to stack global discounts to play a heavy engine strategy. I generally speaking will not play AIC in tempo oriented strategies because this will typically lead to a loss. I'm more likely to want to take good combo scoring over it when I can in drafts, or even a great tempo piece like GIA when I'm already the one pushing to end and win, but will often cut it from lower rated players because it does represent significant upset potential if my opponent gets lucky and managing luck and variance is the name of the game when it comes to consistently beating lower rated opponents.

4) I will play AIC when I have generation where I'm not doing much and have a lot of excess capital, or out of desperation when I'm behind, in both circumstances when I NEED to outscale my opponent to win. One should never delay better plays that score and ramp up prod to gamble on cards that may or may not be good plays themselves. If your hand is already full of great plays to make you don't need to gamble on extra cards, just play the great things you have and win the game.

[jaymc1130]

3) Would you really take restricted over AI? I understand the stats rank restricted over AI for the general population but the math rank AI couple tiers above restricted. AI is income and a steel dump plus 2 tags while restricted is a tile and tag but not an income(2 for a card but if sell break even while AI is two cards free or 2MC).

Depends on the situation, but often times yes. RA is probably (imo at least) the best card draw piece in B+P 2p format. MU and AIC are in the running too, for sure, it's a three horse race in my book, but I lean toward RA generally because it's the most consistent. Easier to play it early for good value, easier to meet the requirements to play it, it costs the least of the 3 to play and upkeep, it teleports, it blocks, it's just an all around amazing card that does a ton of things and fits into any archetype where as both MU and AIC tend to lean much more toward engine play.

[Abtsein]

AI Central is the most overrated card by weak players as demonstrated by the existence of this topic.
It is so overrated that I can probably name 200+ cards that are better.

[jaymc1130]

AI Central is the most overrated card by weak players as demonstrated by the existence of this topic.
It is so overrated that I can probably name 200+ cards that are better.

200+? The entire rest of the deck?

Yeah, no shot.

[Lytical]

Hey Jay good post, would you take it at all as Credicor on tharsis when you obviously going for TR rush in the initial draft? Is it smart to at least speculate on it for 2p? On Hellas I am taking it no matter what

I am talking about a hand with large convoy heat prod plus x3 power, capital but with mining and huge asteroid as prelude. So we are buying 5 cards, no indication of going anywhere near science. Ai would be the 6th card yet not going to delay gen1 heat prod san sabo.

[Andrei3009]

1) AIC is very strong, but it's not as strong as most people believe and the fact that it is perhaps the most overrated card in the game largely stems from 2 player bias and base plus prelude format bias. In all expansions play it's often a card I refuse to play (pluto trades ftw) simply because it's so expensive to develop and in 4 and 5 player games it's often game losing to play it at all (caveat for Interplanetary Cinematics that can play it off all that juicy steel gen 1)

I think most people there talking specifically in 2p B+P

In the game with colonies, AI becomes relatively weaker, because many other strong cards are added, and in the case of Pluto, which draws 1.5–2 cards per turn, +2 cards is no longer that much. However, there's no such thing as too many colony cards, and the AI is still extremely strong.

It is played later than in B+P because more prerequisite development plays and they pay off better due to longer games.