Twilight Imperium

[Okredev]

Don't feed the troll, guys. It's tread about a game discussion, not BGA monetisation politic.

Deep respect for GTSchemer. He's doing titanic job.

[brh2113]

Any idea when, or if expansion content will from both expansions will be added to the game? I did notice the updated strategy cards, construction and warfare from the new expansion.

My understanding (with no insider information, exact details could be wrong) is that FFG has contracted GTSchemer to code up the base game, plus Codec updates. GTSchemer mentioned many pages ago that there's an option FFG may greenlight PoK afterwards, and he's coding with it in mind, but they haven't committed to that until they see how the base game launch goes.

I really, really hope that they do greenlight PoK and it can be brought to BGA. Not sure if there's anywhere else we can write in for support (email FFG saying thanks?), but personally, TI coming to BGA has inspired a Renaissance in my friend group. I purchased a physical copy of base+PoK+TE to be able to play IRL with more people, too (previously only 1 friend of mine owned the game, but he lives in a nearby different city) -- so FFG has gotten at least one full set of sales out of this already

This implementation is stellar. Though after playing several games on BGA now, I am starting to miss the PoK options like the commanders and exploration. Really hoping it comes to BGA someday.

[Esteban74]

But making a definitive claim that my perception is distorted—how is that not a form of manipulation? It's a pointless argument.
I'll just restate my position. The game should be played on equal terms. If achieving that requires payment, then everyone should pay. Personally, I don't want to pay and then play against opponents who are already at a disadvantage simply because they didn't pay.

I totally agre with 19Arx position!
- In not so popular BGA games there are exactly the same conditions between premium (pay) and not premium (free) members,
- instead in popular games the only difference is that only premium memebers have the right to create a game and they also can restict the game to players selected by their invitations.
But even in this 2nd case all playing conditions were absolutely the same betweem premium and free memebers.
For example, I've played a lot of Terra Mystica games here, as a free memeber, and I had same access to select my faction than the game's creator, that must be a premium member, and the other players regardless whether they are premium or free, there is no discrimantion about factions available between premium and free..
I strongly believe that in all asimetric games, as Terra Mystica and TI4, all players (premium and free) must have the the right to select their faction among ALL available factions, otherwise the premium members will have the advantage to choose their factions among much more options than the ones available for free memebers, and such situation will create a prejuice for the free memebers..I've already played a lot of real games of TI3 and since it's publication: TI4, I was really excited about TI4 here, but if such discrimination will be confirmed I really doubt that I'm going to play it, as I'm a free memeber of BGA and I don't want to change my condition as a premium, TI4 online version by paying system is already in Steam, so in my opinion same game online version makes sense in BGA only if free memebers can play TI4 by the same conditions as premium members..the latter, as in almost all other BGA games, will anycase keep the right to create a game, but giving them the advantage of choosing among more factions that the ones avilable for free players, it's a true discrimination and it's unfair, and it's aimed to force all BGA free memebers, who want to play TI4 here, to become premium (pay) memebers..
I knew that since Asmode purchase of BGA, this platofrm would loose its original policy and etics, and that Asmode would force BGA to become a more business oriented plaftofrm, and this situation is the most evident evidence..
It's seems to me so obviuos that I really don't understand why majority of participants to this forum have criticized the opinion of 19Arx, I guess that it's because they all are already premium members..therefore I'd like to know the opinion about this topic of other BGA free memebers like me!
I'm looking forward your reply!
I send all my simpathies and approval to 19Arx opinion!
best regards!

[LuksmGame]

Discrimination: Définition : "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, sex, or disability."

Prejudice : définition : "an unfair and unreasonable opinion or feeling, especially when formed without enough thought or knowledge"

It's not discrimination, it's a prejudice. Words matters. We think with the words at our disposal, not the other way around.

And it's a prejudice solely based on the fact you actually believe the premium player will get an advantage over you while they will just have more choice.

So it's a subjective prejudice, based on a false assumption, since the game will be playable and winnable all the same with the free factions. It's the same as saying you are discriminated in rocket league without season pass because you have less cars, or you are discriminated in LOL because you still don't have all champions.

It's not true, you can play and win all the same, but you are indeed under a prejudice, THAT is true, a very specific form of it, in marketing, which is called an incentive.

Incentive : definition : "a thing that motivates or encourages someone to do something."

So you have an incentive over CHOICE OF FACTION which is the exact definition of a premium advantage (and not a pay to win, a discrimination or any other non sense)

So, to rephrase that properly : you joined BGA knowing there is a free and a premium way to participate in that community. You get the free benefits of the platform as you should and you don't get the premium one as you shouldn't.

So far you were fine with that since, as you said, you kept playing as a free member of BGA and not willing to cross the line toward premium.

Now, a new feature is added to BGA in the form of a new added game. Some feature are for everyone (free and premium) and some are just for premium. And that is the legitimate right of the coder to support his own community thru that incentive.

But, right now, for that game, you want it all for free. So you come here and you actually say you support a guy who wrote that the coder here was willingly making all the free players feel inferior, because that match your own wish.

It's, again, a biased reasonning (endownment effect and confirmation bias).

You start from a wrong premise, which leads you to false claim, which leads you to false conclusion

You basically ask to get all the benefits for none the cost, just because here, you want it. I think that's a very very dangerous mindset. It leads you toward a very dellusional world.

Also, TI version on steam is far from finished, it's only the combat system demo that's online. Yet, the steam version will not be for free. So if you want to play it, you will pay it. Same here, wait...no...that's wrong... better here, you will be able to play for free, juste with less factions

There is TI4 asynchronous and twilightwars if you want to play all the factions online for free at the moment. Yet, of course, you will have half of your game not ending due to players leaving midgame once they lose, since there is no reputation system nor zombie mode there. Oh wait, may be that kind of stuff require a structure with premium features to finance it?

In my opinion, the rock bottom of your and 19Arx mindset is that you want to be able to play for nothing. You don't want an incentive to go premium because that incentive put you in cognitive dissonance. It reminds you, everytime you can't get your premium faction that you actually want to play for free without any cost which is not a substainable model. Not in the specific case of BGA, at least. It reminds you of your own leeching (here I mean that you now take for granted the fact you can play for free on BGA to a lot of games and you ask for more, while being oblivious to the fact that you can play for free because some players are supporting the game thru premium to grant you that ability to play for free). And that cognitive dissonance is the reason why you are trying to blame someone else for your own bias.

You would like a free platform with some patrons to support it. That is a great idea. Yet, that is not the way BGA works. BGA is based on a free/premium system and in such a system, it seems more legit that the premium players make demands for what they can get from that premium spending than the free players deciding what the premium players should get for the money they spent.

Which is what you are stating, here basically : I"m a free player that refuse to become a premium player, yet I want to be legitimate to decide what the premium player can get for their money".

I don't think that's a substainable mindset neither. Again, imo.

Also, even if I were to defend your own point of view : have you even considered the fact that your biased reasoning about how discrimination and unfairness are so obvious here and you can't accept that can also lead to the game being released in full premium to respect your wishes? I would still be playing and you?

There will be no more discrimination, so I guess you will no longer have any reason to complain, right? All players will be playing fairly with the same range of choice.

Or...wait...would that cognitive dissonance still be there and you would find another claim like "it's unfair the game is fully premium, it should at least have some factions playable for free !!".

Oh, wait again...hmmm... what if GTSchemer actually already thought about it, which lead to his current positioning?

Who knows?

P.S : I answered because I too am trapped by my own bias (here the sunk cost bias) but since it was reminded to me that this is not the place for such a debate, I will no longer answer that argument anymore, so feel free to grasp the last word

[19Arx]

I send all my simpathies and approval to 19Arx opinion!
best regards!

Thanks for the support! And oddly enough, it's actually the free-account users who are arguing with me.

Don't feed the troll, guys. It's tread about a game discussion, not BGA monetisation politic.

How easily you resort to personal insults.

It turns out I'm not the only one with this perception after all. Does that mean you'll be reconsidering yours? Just a rhetorical question.

[LibrarianFury]

Correct me if I am wrong, GTSchemer does not make the monetization decision. They either were hired or volunteered for the job. The owner of the license of the game makes the monetization decision, or maybe BGA; maybe that's the same entity, or maybe they made it together. I am staying out of the should they / shouldn't they argument, but I think it is important that GTSchemer gets credit for doing the work or porting the game, not the monetization decisions.

[GTSchemer]

Correct me if I am wrong, GTSchemer does not make the monetization decision. They either were hired or volunteered for the job. The owner of the license of the game makes the monetization decision, or maybe BGA; maybe that's the same entity, or maybe they made it together. I am staying out of the should they / shouldn't they argument, but I think it is important that GTSchemer gets credit for doing the work or porting the game, not the monetization decisions.

This is correct, I do not make the decision on how premium etc. works.

[TFB_CiobyX]

So... Estimative how long is going to take to get this in Beta?

[GTSchemer]

So... Estimative how long is going to take to get this in Beta?

Hopefully soon, however long it takes to finish the last 20% of zombie functionality.

Unfortunately, today the BGA Studio development environment stopped loading for me due to some sort of network or server issue affecting my region. I reported the issue but I don't know how long it will take to come back.

*edit* BGA Studio seems to load again for me now.
*edit2* It no longer loads for me.
*edit3* Working again.

[brh2113]

So... Estimative how long is going to take to get this in Beta?

Hopefully soon, however long it takes to finish the last 20% of zombie functionality.

Very exciting, congratulations!