Karma and leaving the game

[kolejecarina]

Good day to everyone I hope this post will make a change.

Since I'm a chess player and in chess when you surrender you don't lose 'karma' you lose elo points and the opponent gains elo points (makes sense right? ). Its logic, if opponent surrenders you don't take damage unlike in Catan on this website... if someone leaves you don't gain elo points.. what is the purpose of karma and why if someone surrenders loses karma?? points.. I dont see point in karma.

My suggestion is to use logic and just lose elo if you surrender or gain elo when you win if others surrender.
If one surrenders let the other two/three enjoy the game for Gods sake...

[Meeplelowda]

Good day to everyone I hope this post will make a change.

Since I'm a chess player and in chess when you surrender you don't lose 'karma' you lose elo points and the opponent gains elo points (makes sense right? ). Its logic, if opponent surrenders you don't take damage unlike in Catan on this website... if someone leaves you don't gain elo points.. what is the purpose of karma and why if someone surrenders loses karma?? points.. I dont see point in karma.

My suggestion is to use logic and just lose elo if you surrender or gain elo when you win if others surrender.
If one surrenders let the other two/three enjoy the game for Gods sake...

In a two-person game (chess), resigning (conceding in BGA language) is accepted behavior. You can concede 2p games on BGA without a karma penalty if they have reached 50% progression. But not all games are chess, and it is the subject of much debate whether one *should* (even though you *can*) concede all 2p games. Players of abstract games (like chess, Reversi, etc.) usually don't care. For other games the players want to see it to the end for various reason.

But when you quit (you can't concede a 3+ player game on BGA) you are possibly ruining the game for the other players. Some games simply don't work when a player is suddenly removed from the board. Some players may have chosen the game because they wanted that specific player count and you are ruining that. Some games have DIFFERENT rules and setups entirely for a 2p vs 3p game. If you quit a 3p game the other players may not be able to just continue as if it had been a 2p game the whole time.

The point of karma is to warn people that someone like you likes to leave in the middle of a game if it isn't going well so that they can avoid you if they want.

[tbhp]

Any time I've seen someone concede it seemed to be a toxic masculinity thing like "oh no I'm going to get destroyed, I must protect my ego" (the irony being that it actually achieves the opposite).

Even if they don't have such outwardly toxic intentions and are just getting bored or something, it's not nice to end the game on someone who may have wanted to see it completed to the end.

Also note that games like Chess and other similar abstract games are destruction games, as opposed to creation games, meaning that the board becomes less complex as the game goes on. The ending stages of a Chess game are often quite uninteresting if one player's board is getting wiped out and it's only a matter of time before the other player can get all their pieces in position to perform a checkmate. In contrast, creation games are all about building something to completion so it's more likely the players would see beauty in the final state they are building towards, and therefore would be affected if you decided to abruptly end the game.

[BarnardsStar]

But when you quit (you can't concede a 3+ player game on BGA) you are possibly ruining the game for the other players. Some games simply don't work when a player is suddenly removed from the board.

I’d like to see more games support quitters, though. Like Heat and Formula D, the race continues even if somebody quits… Roll-and-writes should be able to support this, as should parallel timed games like Gamme Logic or Reflection… Poker should allow you to cash out and leave the table before it’s over… etc.

But it does remain true that most games don’t work this way and it’s not feasible to just “let the other two/three enjoy the game”.

[Meeplelowda]

But when you quit (you can't concede a 3+ player game on BGA) you are possibly ruining the game for the other players. Some games simply don't work when a player is suddenly removed from the board.

I’d like to see more games support quitters, though. Like Heat and Formula D, the race continues even if somebody quits… Roll-and-writes should be able to support this, as should parallel timed games like Gamme Logic or Reflection… Poker should allow you to cash out and leave the table before it’s over… etc.

But it does remain true that most games don’t work this way and it’s not feasible to just “let the other two/three enjoy the game”.

For the games where it would work (and you've given examples), sure. But as you point out, for many games it just won't work.

I know it's naive to expect the experience on BGA to precisely mimic over the board play, but would these people who just want to quit in the middle of multiplayer games walk out in the middle of a game of Dune: Imperium at their friend's place and say "you all just keep playing"? If they wouldn't do it to their friends, why do they think it's acceptable to do it on BGA? After hosting and attending game nights both in homes and game stores over the past decade, I've yet to see someone quit in the middle of a game except for illness.

[Chisteri1]

I was thinking about this too. Spouse and I have each received a penalty for ending a 2p game (w/ each other). Spouse's was due to confusion about a difference in rules we were taught and the gameplay settings. Spouse believed the game reset and, not liking the default rules, quit and set up a new game. Spouse was penalized. My instance was a different game where I still had legal moves, but I had zero means of being able to win, so I told Spouse I was going to concede so we could begin a new game.

I understand that random internet strangers quitting a game is pissy no matter how many people are playing; however, there should be a way to end a game early without penalty. Why not add a button titled "Propose to End Game," and when you click on it, a box pops up asking for your reason why, and bottons to cancel or submit. Submitted reasons would trigger prompts to the other players and if everyone agrees, the game would end with no penalties or points given.

[FrankJones]

There exists a button to propose to collectively abandon the game.
There exists a chat box to explain why you are requesting the game be abandoned.

[ErikLevin]

Also, you can play in Friendly mode, where there are no timers, no penalty for quitting, and no Elo rating.

[JimBut]

Spouse and I have each received a penalty for ending a 2p game (w/ each other).

...

however, there should be a way to end a game early without penalty.

Note that BGA makes a distinction between quitting a game (which anyone can do at anytime for a penalty) and conceding (which can be done in a 2 player game after 50% progression without penalty).

There also is already an option to propose that the game is abandoned

[Meeplelowda]

however, there should be a way to end a game early without penalty. Why not add a button titled "Propose to End Game," and when you click on it, a box pops up asking for your reason why, and bottons to cancel or submit.

As other have mentioned, there IS a way to propose ending a game to all the other players (without penalties). It is literally called "Propose to abandon the game collectively." They just didn't show you how. It's In the hamburger menu in the upper right. It requires a unanimous vote, although anyone whose clock is negative automatically votes yes.

Others have also mentioned that you can use the chat feature that's on every table to give the reasons why you want to abandon the table. However, this assumes everyone at the table either speaks the same language. I would do the courtesy of translating it into a language that other players have in their profile if necessary.