someone is cheating - what now?

[BartholomewBart]

no. using a program

And what does this program supposedly do that gives an advantage?

[Mars4ever]

I don't understand, why don't you tell what's the game in the object?
I get it if you talk about chess but, besides that, how is it possible to have a "pogram" that suggests the player what move/action/card to make/play?

The only aspect where I see it's possible to cheat is on memory game. Everybody cheats on trio for example, so if it was for me, I would just remove it from the platform and never mind, a memo game online makes no sense.
For the same reason, rules like the hidden points in puerto rico are obsolete, if anybody can simply write them down. So why not just show them explicitly?

[nik592]

For the same reason, rules like the hidden points in puerto rico are obsolete, if anybody can simply write them down. So why not just show them explicitly?

That's true of offline gaming too. I mean, your opponents can obviously see you writing them down, but realistically, if your opponent just did it, would you tell them to stop? And argue the point and/or walk away from the game if they didn't?

Furthermore, for people with a particular sort of memory, writing down isn't necessary. It's hidden, trackable information. We play a lot of games IRL with this information not hidden so everyone is on the same footing and your memory doesn't give you an added advantage.

[Silene]

If you suspect someone is cheating and can provide facts / proofs, you need to report them via the designated tool using the /support page.

The BGA moderators will review your claim and act if necessary.

You said this on different threads so far. But are you actually aware that

(a) the support page does not offer any option to report players?

I guess you mean the report player button on the player's profile.

(b) the report player menu does not offer an option to report any cheating apart from multi-accounting.

Maybe BGA doesn't believe cheating proof could actually exist and therefore there's no option to report it. Or that BGA can't handle such reports because if you offer reporting them, there would be too many false reports for mods to handle and therefore cheating is not reportable. I could understand.

But a comment like "if you have proof, use the existing channels to report it" kinda makes me angry because those channels do not exist. I suggest you try navigating there to see.

Or maybe I'm missing something, so could you give an example of what options we should chose in either of those forms to get to a form where we can fill in report details?

[FrankJones]

Taking notes is not cheating. There is an embedded notes section provided by the BGA website itself, presumably to be used for ... taking notes.

[tbhp]

Maybe BGA doesn't believe cheating proof could actually exist and therefore there's no option to report it.

I think their reasoning is something along those lines.

It's like the "monkey accidentally typing a masterpiece" thought experiment. Even if you could show with probabilities that there is an almost 100% chance a player is cheating, that player could always claim "I just keep being lucky" and there would be no way to refute it.

[Silene]

Maybe BGA doesn't believe cheating proof could actually exist and therefore there's no option to report it.

I think their reasoning is something along those lines.

It's like the "monkey accidentally typing a masterpiece" thought experiment. Even if you could show with probabilities that there is an almost 100% chance a player is cheating, that player could always claim "I just keep being lucky" and there would be no way to refute it.

That might be it and I understand that. But i would very much prefer admins not indicating on the forums that there are proper channels for reporting it when there are not.

Maybe they don't know themselves anymore because they only checked the option exists but didn't see it doesn't lead anywhere.

[ChiefPointThief]

Maybe BGA doesn't believe cheating proof could actually exist and therefore there's no option to report it.

I think their reasoning is something along those lines.

It's like the "monkey accidentally typing a masterpiece" thought experiment. Even if you could show with probabilities that there is an almost 100% chance a player is cheating, that player could always claim "I just keep being lucky" and there would be no way to refute it.

That might be it and I understand that. But i would very much prefer admins not indicating on the forums that there are proper channels for reporting it when there are not.

Maybe they don't know themselves anymore because they only checked the option exists but didn't see it doesn't lead anywhere.

I find it hard to believe that they are unaware when players like you constantly make them aware of the problem. So they see the initial comments saying there’s no way to report but not all the comments replying to their reply that there is?

I’ve seen this pattern for years here. There are tons of flaws with the moderation policy and they nitpick a response here and there and blatantly ignore many concerns.

As for your response tbhp there are forms of cheating that can easily be proven. For instance, telling what cards you have in the game chat and things of that nature. But even in the moderation policy it says they will take no action against such things.

[Meereseule]

I don't understand, why don't you tell what's the game in the object?
I get it if you talk about chess but, besides that, how is it possible to have a "pogram" that suggests the player what move/action/card to make/play?

The only aspect where I see it's possible to cheat is on memory game. Everybody cheats on trio for example, so if it was for me, I would just remove it from the platform and never mind, a memo game online makes no sense.
For the same reason, rules like the hidden points in puerto rico are obsolete, if anybody can simply write them down. So why not just show them explicitly?

A general thought. I saw multiple posts here in bga, where it was confirmed, that people let for example an Ai program play their games. Some say for scientific research, but didn’t even told it tothe players they played with. And some of them were just little 5 to 10 Minute games. Also some people, for example im card games, can give an Ai the data and it also says what and how to play. This is a real and serious problem here.

[tbhp]

I don't understand, why don't you tell what's the game in the object?
I get it if you talk about chess but, besides that, how is it possible to have a "pogram" that suggests the player what move/action/card to make/play?

The only aspect where I see it's possible to cheat is on memory game. Everybody cheats on trio for example, so if it was for me, I would just remove it from the platform and never mind, a memo game online makes no sense.
For the same reason, rules like the hidden points in puerto rico are obsolete, if anybody can simply write them down. So why not just show them explicitly?

A general thought. I saw multiple posts here in bga, where it was confirmed, that people let for example an Ai program play their games. Some say for scientific research, but didn’t even told it tothe players they played with. And some of them were just little 5 to 10 Minute games. Also some people, for example im card games, can give an Ai the data and it also says what and how to play. This is a real and serious problem here.

I agree, I don't know why some people are acting like it would be extremely complex to create a program that can help you cheat at a game. Something as simple as using a calculator can be considered cheating. Using a random number generator can be considered cheating.

It's like people think of cheating as "using a program that can literally play the whole game by itself". But that's not what cheating means. Anything that gives you a push in the right direction can be considered cheating, if it gives you an advantage that you wouldn't be able to have without those tools.