Esteban74 wrote: ↑16 June 2026, 22:20
LuksmGame wrote: ↑16 June 2026, 09:03
You both persist to say the same utter non sens : you want to be able to use the work of others, freely, as much as you want, without never contributing to anything. THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE ON THE LONG RUN. And on the short run, it has a name it's called ABUSE !!!
You are critisizing a capitalist economical loop here from asmodeee without even considering the fact that your mindset is actually more predatory behavior.
Please start properly looking at the idea you are defending before forcing us to read your whining. You are blaming yourselves here. You are just unable to even notice it
If you want a fair model (egalitarian and equitable), then it's quite simple and demonstrated both in economy and sociology since decades : it requires a small CONTRIBUTION from the most of people. And you two clearly state you are refusing to contribute to anything but complain
It's a known triptych. Equity, egality and independance. If you want equity and independance (your current positioning) you can't have egality. If you want egality and equity (your asking) then you will have to stop being independant and start working your ass too.
You're disgusted? You think some people here are hypocritical? I concur. How disappointing, indeed.
And you're right : Even here, the only principle that seems to matter is money. To you at least. You can play BGA for free all year long in a system that don't REQUIRE your money but is ASKING for your contribution. You have the freedom to refuse. You actually DO refuse. Yet you still ask for more and more, based on your selfish desire and nothing more.
Isn't that the exact definition of the neoliberalism in capitalism? The unlimited seek of profits? Aren't you asking for more personal profits, here?
What a letdown, indeed again..
You two place yourselves ON PURPOSE outside of the own philosiphical model you say you're fighting for, hoping for. You adopt ON PURPOSE the predatorian mindset of what you claim to despise. And after all that shit, you dare blame OTHERS for that.... IN PUBLIC !!
My first answer to that shitload here is still the same :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundament ... tion_error
Easy question:? Why in Terra Mystica I have exactly same factions options as ALL players (including the payer ones) instead in TI 4 not?? You consider obvious such discrimination, instead it results to me that in BGA only TI4 has such factions selection range difference between payers/free..therefore such policy is not so obvious..in BGA there are almost only Asmode's games, including TI4, therefore BGA is their perfect promotional place for promoting their games, so they make money with the sales of their real games, that are promoted here, isn't enough?? BGA doesn't have to pay royalties to Asmode because the owner of BGA and of TI is always Asmode..so what are you speaking about?? I really don't understand why majority of people here consider right such discrimination..
"Easy question:? Why in Terra Mystica I have"
-->That is the second time you use one particular example to justify a systemic and global criticism. That is a well known bias in argumentation (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)
"in BGA there are almost only Asmode's games, including TI4, therefore BGA is their perfect promotional place for promoting their games, so they make money with the sales of their real games, that are promoted here, isn't enough??"
--> The issue is that you place yourself in a situation when you believe you are legitimate to express a "that is enough" while speaking about the choice and property of someone else, and you place yourself in a "righteous" position while doing so. You are trying to place your own limits on the whole BGA community, while stating that your limits (being able to play for free all you want) is not the way BGA works (your own description was :
was that of a non-profit community open to everyone, where each participant could contribute according to their means.) Yet, you state you place yourself outside of that "each" in your whole argumentation.
-->"I really don't understand why majority of people here consider right such discrimination.."
In the end, the answer lies here. If you're in front on a painting that is a red monochrom and, when you state that loud, everyone around you warns you it's a green monochrom, you have three possibilities and none others :
- they all agree to lie to you
- they all have an issue with their sight
- or you have an issue with your sight.
And that will be your choice to decide which path you want to walk down. I can't decide that for you.
Same advice than before : Go ask someone you trust, go let that person read that forum from the initial post of 19Arx till that one. Ask for their opinion. May be you will discover a very important truth in life : people don't judge you on your intent (yours seems being based on a very democratic old version of BGA is noble and match my own personal values).
They just judge you on your actions, because that's the sole things they can actually get from you.
And your choice of words, ideas, arguments here were...well...go ask someone you trust.
But, I will try to answer you again while taking your position into account (excuse me if I fail) : on the logical level ; it is not discrimination, it is incentive. From a company which has fiduciary duty. Discrimination would be that free player have less chances than premium players to win. The choice of Asmodee here is not discriminating. It's basically just rebranding TI4 with a "base game" and a "faction extension" where players have to play with the version they own.
May it feel frustrating? Yes. And your frustration was well heard. Is it discriminating? Absolutely not. You can still play the game (and win fairly) and people with just base game can play with people with extension and the other way too. It's in fact inclusive. As long as you assume there is a "base game" and a "faction extension".(which is a prerogative of the owners of the game. You can find it's not the best way around, like some people stated here, yet, it's still their right to do so) They could have stated : free players will only be able to play games with free players, with the basic factions. That would have been even closer from discrimination.
So, imo, you are confusing frustration with discrimination. And like I shared (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundament ... tion_error)
- Frustration has an internal cause. What you wish and what you can have differs, it create an emotional tension called frustration. The solution is INTERNAL. You have to learn how to manage that frustration or place yourself in a situation that don't generate it.
- Discrimination has an external cause : Someone else force you to feel different to other with no means to change that(and here lays the diffrerence with incentive. Disgusting difference, I concurr, yet difference). Someone decide for you. That should be unacceptable in a social species like humans, and so I also do believe that discrimination require to fight against it and blame people who are creating it. Yet, that is not the case here,
and that word is not one that should be used so freely to pent up frustration
The sad thing is that "incentive" (which is what is really done by Asmodee here) is a fucking pervert thing that is meant to disguise frustration into discrimination. The whole point of an incentive
is to make you feel that you are deprived of something others can have. The whole point of that stuff is to lead you to feel so frustrated that you change your behavior.
And the best way to force someone to do that is by creating
a sense of deprivation, hence
a feeling of discrimination.
Yet,
it's not and the sooner you can understand and accept that the sooner your actions will again match your intent/beliefs : you will stop being haugty and mean, patronizing over people who help the BGA of your dream grow and you will start looking at Asmodee strategy properly, hence being able to fight them properly.
Asmodee is trying to make you feel frustrated, and they manage to do that precisely. By making you believe they are depriving you of a freedom you never had nor had a need for.
6 months ago,
there was no TI4 on BGA and you were quite fine. Now you will have
a new freedom, you will be able to play TI4 on BGA
for free, yet you
feel deprived of freedom.... (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactance_(psychology)
To me (i'm probably wrong) you feel frustrated because you are deeply aware of the fact that you receive more from BGA than you gave. And you feel
grateful to BGA for that.
But it seems you failed to notice that "grateful" is a sense of being
indebted. IF you feel indebted to someone or something and live with that sensation long enough, it became your new norm, and when it change it leads to frustration. Imaging you have a friend who lend you an hand every single time you are in need, without asking anything in return. You will be grateful and consider him/her as a very good friend.
The day he/she will refuse helping you, you will feel frustrated.
If you're in real need and that friend do have the means to help you at "no cost for him/her" (your judgment, never the reality) and still refuse to do so,
you will even feel "betrayed".
Yet friendship is also a social contract. What was your part of the deal? Have you held up your end of the bargain?
From my sight now : I will pay that premium when the game comes in beta. Because I will make a
personal trade-off I will decide if what I give to Asmodee, the premium, match what I get from them (the games and the platform and community on it). Because I'm fully aware that BGA is not a community based gift. It was a social contract before Asmodee and it's now a commercial contract with Asmodee. In contracts, both party have to commit something inside. If, one day, what I get from what I give is generating frustration, then that means that contract does no longer seems fair to me and I will go away from it and try to find a better one that match my sense of fairness.
Because I'm aware it's a
give and take deal. Nothing more. But tell me : if I decided that it's just a
take deal and I claim harshly around that i want
to be given more. Because I'm confusing my frustration and my legitimate right to a legitimate claim...
How would I look like, to others?
