[MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

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CastorT
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Joined: 22 January 2022, 19:56

[MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by CastorT »

The Vermilion Emperor, Leaders 1st expansion, is now playable on BGA!

Image

This expansion introduces 4 new characters with unique abilities: the Wisp, the Tactician, the Sniper and the Shaman (with his Frog!). Check the website for more details. A new Leader is also available (as cosmetic as cute) - you can select him in the options during a game.

Upcoming Leaders tournaments now include the expansion. Join them!

The Barrage rule has finally been uploaded. It prevents wall strategies.

The Competition format with Majors has been revealed.

We are still hard at work to improve Leaders and make it a great competitive game. Thank your for your support and feedback. Have fun!
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Oshikureto
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Joined: 20 January 2024, 20:05

Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by Oshikureto »

I'm not sure about this new barrage rule. It does not make much sense, given that it was a nice mechanic that the game naturally provided.

What sets Leaders apart from other chess-like games is the ability to either:

1 move only one of your pieces
2 move more than one or all of your pieces
3 not move any piece at all and give your turn a pass

The barrage only becomes a problem on possibility n#3, in which you could form "a perfect barrier" and give a pass endlessly, but such a thing does not exist. If you have either the illusionist, bruiser, manipulator, or grappler, the "perfect barrier" will inevitably fall.

If, for some weird reason, all the 4 aforementioned characters that move other characters are banned, then we could think about the barrage rule the same way we could think a 3-move repetition rule in chess (which forces a draw, but in leaders it could force a loss)

If the same barrage stays put for longer than 3 turns and/or a player gives a pass 3 turns in a row, they should automatically lose.

Having a barrage is one of the coolest mechanics in this game, and I've both won and lost many games either defending with a barrage or trying to overcome one.
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Xyon McKell
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Joined: 05 December 2024, 17:39

Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by Xyon McKell »

Why is the expansion suddenly part of arena games mid-season? The rules/setup should be consistent throughout the season.
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Oshikureto
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Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by Oshikureto »

Xyon McKell wrote: 22 June 2026, 18:06 Why is the expansion suddenly part of arena games mid-season? The rules/setup should be consistent throughout the season.
I totally agree. It doesn't make sense to change rules mid-tournament.
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CastorT
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Joined: 22 January 2022, 19:56

Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by CastorT »

Xyon McKell wrote: 22 June 2026, 18:06 Why is the expansion suddenly part of arena games mid-season? The rules/setup should be consistent throughout the season.
This was not intentional. This is an after effect of today's update. We don't have control over this. We contacted BGA to see if they can make something about it fix. I'm on the same page as you on this one.

I'll keep you updated if this can be fixed. I'm with you on that one.
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Oshikureto
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Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by Oshikureto »

Can the Sniper help capture the Leader when adjacent?

The rules do not state it clearly as they do with the Archer, Cub, Frog, and Wisp, so I'm assuming it can.
Ript0r
Posts: 9
Joined: 11 July 2023, 10:48

Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by Ript0r »

Oshikureto wrote: 22 June 2026, 22:43 Can the Sniper help capture the Leader when adjacent?

The rules do not state it clearly as they do with the Archer, Cub, Frog, and Wisp, so I'm assuming it can.
Yes, it is specified in the rules
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CastorT
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Joined: 22 January 2022, 19:56

Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by CastorT »

Oshikureto wrote: 22 June 2026, 14:48 I'm not sure about this new barrage rule. It does not make much sense, given that it was a nice mechanic that the game naturally provided.

What sets Leaders apart from other chess-like games is the ability to either:

1 move only one of your pieces
2 move more than one or all of your pieces
3 not move any piece at all and give your turn a pass

The barrage only becomes a problem on possibility n#3, in which you could form "a perfect barrier" and give a pass endlessly, but such a thing does not exist. If you have either the illusionist, bruiser, manipulator, or grappler, the "perfect barrier" will inevitably fall.

If, for some weird reason, all the 4 aforementioned characters that move other characters are banned, then we could think about the barrage rule the same way we could think a 3-move repetition rule in chess (which forces a draw, but in leaders it could force a loss)

If the same barrage stays put for longer than 3 turns and/or a player gives a pass 3 turns in a row, they should automatically lose.

Having a barrage is one of the coolest mechanics in this game, and I've both won and lost many games either defending with a barrage or trying to overcome one.
Thanks for your feedback on the Barrage rule.

Why did we introduce this rule?
To prevent situations where the game is blocked because a player, in a losing position, decides to block the game. His goal is no longer to win, but not to lose, to keep the game going as long as possible. To sum it up: "ok, I won't win this game, but guess what? You neither." I don't want Leaders to support those situations. The game should be fast paced, and for this encourage offensive moves, not defensive ones. Of course smart defensive plays should still shine, but not at the detriment of leading to a winning situation for one of the players.

"If you have either the illusionist, bruiser, manipulator, or grappler, the "perfect barrier" will inevitably fall." This is not true against a Protector or a Jailor.

"Having a barrage is one of the coolest mechanics in this game". I respect that opinion. After it is clearly in the minority: you're the first person I hear saying they appreciate Barrage situations. Since 1+ year, dozens of people told me they are bored/frustrated by those situations.

With this new rule, you can still do a Barrage. What's forbidden is to do it 2 turns in a row. There are many Barrage situations, some that work still while the player may move 1 or 2 characters. Checking which characters has moved is not the solution. Leaders has some similarities with Chess, but also significant differences.

Leaders has just 1 year. Chess had centuries to evolve. My goal is to improve it over time, with the help of the community. It will take time. This Barrage rule is an attempt to deal with some frustrating situations we acknowledged we don't want in the game. It could be tweaked overtime (e.g. 3 warnings instead of 2, different way to identify Barrages...). Anyone who want to participate to the discussion, feel free to join the Discord.
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CastorT
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Joined: 22 January 2022, 19:56

Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by CastorT »

The Arena is back to normal. No more 1st expansion ambush. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks to BGA for helping us sort this out.
I imagine the expansion will be added next season by the community.
Good luck for this one!
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Xyon McKell
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Joined: 05 December 2024, 17:39

Re: [MAJOR UPDATE] Leaders 1st expansion is LIVE!

Post by Xyon McKell »

That's good at least. Although now it's done it again for an underway tournament. The International 9 started without the expansion in step 1 and now has it on for the next game.

This expansion should not have been set on as the default option when implemented, which is likely causing this (and as an expansion it shouldn't be the default anyway).
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