When get the karma of a player updated?

[Volker_B]

In one of my games a player was kicked out. However, when I look at their profile karma is still at 100%. How can this be?

[tarongot]

In one of my games a player was kicked out. However, when I look at their profile karma is still at 100%. How can this be?

Maybe that kick was during BGA server crash? When in fact is very bad to kick someone just because BGA is not working for him and many more people. Or maybe that player already got it back by playing 10 games?

[Volker_B]

I don't think so. The player was kicked today in the morning with 2 days over time and wasn't online since then.

You're right. Kicking players due to server issues is bad manners. In fact, I don't like kicking at all. It spoils my game, too. I can understand that people do it in real-time games but I see in general no reason to kick people in turn-based games. But that's not the point here. I just want to understand why this is.

[tbhp]

Along similar lines, the system does have some exceptions in regards to whether expulsions/concessions are counted as a "real" win.

For example, if you are going for one of the "consecutive wins" trophies, I believe that if the game ends by an expulsion or a concession then the result won't be counted towards that end. This shows that the devs themselves realize those game outcomes are less than ideal and, whenever possible, should not be counted as actual wins. It would be a bit disingenuous for someone to claim they got 20 wins in a row when actually one of those was not acquired the normal way.

Something similar exists in real sports. If two football teams have a penalty shootout at the end of the world cup final, the result of the shootout will be used to determine the winner, but the game result will officially be written down as a tie (although to be fair, winning on penalty shootouts is absolutely incomparable to winning on expulsion/concession, because at least an actual duel happened).

[Shivaware]

I'm sorry that some of the replies are derailing the discussion.

As far as I can see, the player in your example should not have 100% karma. I started going through recently finished Catan games and also found a few people that had been skipped, but were still at 100%. My understanding was that the karma penalties showed around the time the game completed, so maybe something is not working correctly, or there has been an unannounced change in how things work.

[tbhp]

I'm sorry that some of the replies are derailing the discussion.

As far as I can see, the player in your example should not have 100% karma. I started going through recently finished Catan games and also found a few people that had been skipped, but were still at 100%. My understanding was that the karma penalties showed around the time the game completed, so maybe something is not working correctly, or there has been an unannounced change in how things work.

I believe tarongot gave the explanation. It makes sense that if you get expelled while the site is down, you wouldn't get all the consequences that you would normally get. It's a way for the site to take some accountability for what happened, because in this case it's really not the person's fault that they went out of time.

There may also be other similar exceptions that we don't know about, which could explain those cases too.

[Volker_B]

I filed a bug report for this. https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=227834

[Shivaware]

I found another example of a player that had been skipped, but they still had 98% karma. I then noticed that both users recently created their accounts, and these were their very first time being skipped.

Is it possible that BGA does not remove karma if it's your first time getting skipped?

Edit: After checking a bunch more games with skipped players, I've found enough examples to be convinced that BGA does not remove karma the first time you get skipped. I'm not sure if there is a grace period, so maybe it won't work if your account was created back in 2012

[tbhp]

After checking a bunch more games with skipped players, I've found enough examples to be convinced that BGA does not remove karma the first time you get skipped.

That's a bit strange. I guess the idea is that the player may not know about it the first time it happens. But it doesn't really make sense, because if they aren't receiving a penalty the first time, it may give them the impression that getting kicked out never gives you a penalty. So it doesn't really change anything whether they come to the realization on the first or the second time they are getting kicked out.

[Meeplelowda]

Is it possible that BGA does not remove karma if it's your first time getting skipped?

Edit: After checking a bunch more games with skipped players, I've found enough examples to be convinced that BGA does not remove karma the first time you get skipped. I'm not sure if there is a grace period, so maybe it won't work if your account was created back in 2012

This is correct. The very first one you ever get expelled is a freebie. And the second one ever is only 10% I think. I can't remember if it is always only 10% if you haven't had one for a long time, or if the 10% only applies to the very first karma penalty.

My goal is to remain personally unfamiliar with how karma penalties are applied.