Karma

[andy19neal]

I've had an unfortunate run of loosing connection, while trying to get a game in on the bus/train. And taken a few hits on my karma.

If I've understood it right every completed game gets 2% added to your karma. I wonder if it could be a time of game thing? I could play one game of wingspan 20-25 mins at get 2% or play 4/5 games of a quick game, 7 wonders for example and potentially get 8/10% In the same time.

I recently played my first ark nova game which was awesome but took a long time and it's a shame the time spent playing doesn't align with the karma gained?

I doesn't have to be a perfect minute to karama thing but feel like there's room to move the rules?

[Ceaseless]

I've had an unfortunate run of loosing connection, while trying to get a game in on the bus/train. And taken a few hits on my karma.

If I've understood it right every completed game gets 2% added to your karma. I wonder if it could be a time of game thing? I could play one game of wingspan 20-25 mins at get 2% or play 4/5 games of a quick game, 7 wonders for example and potentially get 8/10% In the same time.

I recently played my first ark nova game which was awesome but took a long time and it's a shame the time spent playing doesn't align with the karma gained?

I doesn't have to be a perfect minute to karama thing but feel like there's room to move the rules?

https://boardgamearena.com/faq?anchor=f ... reputation

Each time you finish a game, if your clock has never been negative during this game, you get +1☯.
If you quit, or get kicked out of a game in progress, you lose 10☯ or even 20☯ if you already quit another game recently.

Anyways, Karma is laughably easy to get, which is why basically everyone is just at 100% nearly all the time.

[Meeplelowda]

I could play one game of wingspan 20-25 mins at get 2% or play 4/5 games of a quick game, 7 wonders for example and potentially get 8/10% In the same time.

That's it, except it's 1%, not 2%, as noted above. If it matters that much to you, you can "farm" karma with very short games. Even shorter than 7 Wonders. Liking the game is not required.

[cigma]

I wonder if it could be a time of game thing?
I doesn't have to be a perfect minute to karama thing but feel like there's room to move the rules?

If you want BGA to consider this, you have to fill in a suggestion report: https://boardgamearena.com/bugs Then others can vote for it, so you might add a lnk to it here.

[LorenZo-M]

I totally agree with Andy that the Karma system needs some adjustments, and I have to respectfully disagree with Ceaseless saying that 'everyone is just at 100% nearly all the time'.

Of course, taking a penalty when you leave a game is understandable and losing ELO when you resign is a fair consequence. But my main issue is that I often choose
to quit simply because other players are being incredibly slow.

The system makes absolutely no distinction between someone who rudely just walks away and lets the timer run down, forcing everyone to wait, and someone who
actively clicks 'Quit' to instantly give the opponent the win and save their time. In the second case, you already accept the ELO loss. Why should you also get a heavy Karma penalty for choosing the polite way to end a stalled game?

[Ceaseless]

I totally agree with Andy that the Karma system needs some adjustments, and I have to respectfully disagree with Ceaseless saying that 'everyone is just at 100% nearly all the time'.

Of course, taking a penalty when you leave a game is understandable and losing ELO when you resign is a fair consequence. But my main issue is that I often choose
to quit simply because other players are being incredibly slow.

The system makes absolutely no distinction between someone who rudely just walks away and lets the timer run down, forcing everyone to wait, and someone who
actively clicks 'Quit' to instantly give the opponent the win and save their time. In the second case, you already accept the ELO loss. Why should you also get a heavy Karma penalty for choosing the polite way to end a stalled game?

Yes, 100% is the norm. Basically everyone stays at it. They'll have an occasional issue pop up where a game gets dropped, but that's easily fixed, as completing games regularly is the norm, so they end up at 100% again without issue.

Considering you have an option to kick slow players, the chances of someone spamming quits like that legitimately is unlikely, and BGA labelling them as poor sports is rightfully deserved. Though in your case, your tendency to spam random quits is also combined with the fact you're a very slow player who regularly gets timed out and kicked as a result, so you complaining about slow players in this case who haven't even been timed out to quit is ironic, given the players you're complaining about are maintaining a better pace than you tend to.

[tbhp]

I think people are missing OP's point somewhat. While yes karma can be easy to gain if you play a lot of short games, this is far from ideal if it just pushes people to mindlessly play a lot of short games they usually wouldn't be playing just to gain back their karma.

A system like OP suggests would avoid this issue, make karma gained proportional to the time spent in game, which would allow people to gain back karma while playing the games they actually want to play, thus bringing better competition and making the experience better for everyone.

[LorenZo-M]

Considering you have an option to kick slow players,

First of all, I'm not complaining about my 45% Karma, I know it can be recovered, And thank you for the personal attack, which shows just how inflexible you are.

But my personal stats are not the point here. I am trying to discuss a flaw in the platform's quitting system. I guess it's just really hard to make people see that a feature doesn't work when everyone has simply adapted to the status quo.

[Ceaseless]

I think people are missing OP's point somewhat. While yes karma can be easy to gain if you play a lot of short games, this is far from ideal if it just pushes people to mindlessly play a lot of short games they usually wouldn't be playing just to gain back their karma.

A system like OP suggests would avoid this issue, make karma gained proportional to the time spent in game, which would allow people to gain back karma while playing the games they actually want to play, thus bringing better competition and making the experience better for everyone.

Karma is easy to gain back just by playing games, you don't have to do a speedrun to do it. You get a full 1% just for completing a game regularly. That's like getting karma for breathing, it's nothing. There's no need to increase easily gained karma. Completing a game shows you can meet your commitment. You don't need to show off how much time you can sink into it, just that you can do what you said you can, whether it be short or long.

Considering you have an option to kick slow players,

First of all, I'm not complaining about my 45% Karma, I know it can be recovered, And thank you for the personal attack, which shows just how inflexible you are.

But my personal stats are not the point here. I am trying to discuss a flaw in the platform's quitting system. I guess it's just really hard to make people see that a feature doesn't work when everyone has simply adapted to the status quo.

Your "flaw" is one of karma's few functioning features, helping sort out players regularly failing the basic commitments they promised in joining games. BGA didn't mess up when it gave those players a poor reputation. If BGA's reputation is to get fixed, it's to update it so it can help catch even more of those poor sports regularly quitting games.

[tbhp]

Karma is easy to gain back just by playing games, you don't have to do a speedrun to do it. You get a full 1% just for completing a game regularly. That's like getting karma for breathing, it's nothing. There's no need to increase easily gained karma.

If a person normally plays games that typically last half an hour in real time, they'll be tempted to play shorter games that they normally wouldn't play just to gain their karma back. This is good neither for the player who isn't enjoying themselves nor for their opponent who is essentially facing a zombie.

Completing a game shows you can meet your commitment. You don't need to show off how much time you can sink into it, just that you can do what you said you can, whether it be short or long.

Completing games has less value as a punishment if it's a unnatural grind the player is imposing on themselves. This is the equivalent of a school teacher punishing a student by having them write the same sentence a hundred times. This is ineffective because writing the same sentence many times over is not a life situation that you would normally naturally encounter. For a punishment to be most effective, it has to put you in a typical life circumstance and encourage you to behave well in that circumstance, thus training you to be a good person in those situations and showing that you are able to do it. If you just give a person something stupid to do, they won't really be into it and they won't "believe" the punishment.

If BGA's reputation is to get fixed, it's to update it so it can help catch even more of those poor sports regularly quitting games.

Yes, I agree that karma penalties are too lenient. This discussion isn't about that, it's about the method through which one should gain back karma.