Bang!: Предложение о создании системы оценки честности игроков / Bang!: Proposal for a player integrity rating system

[JoJocage]

Уважаемое сообщество BGA!

Хочу поднять важную проблему, с которой сталкиваются многие игроки в Bang! на нашей платформе.

Проблема:
Многие игроки либо не знают правил, либо намеренно нарушают их, подыгрывая определенным ролям. Классический пример: в партии на 5 человек Ренегат до уничтожения всех Бандитов ведет себя как Помощник Шерифа, атакуя Бандитов. В результате, когда остается 2 против 1 (Шериф + Помощник против Ренегата), команда Шерифа легко доводит игру до победы. У Бандитов, при таком раскладе, почти нет шансов.

Это нарушает саму механику игры, где Ренегат должен действовать самостоятельно и в свой интерес, а не быть "вторым помощником" Шерифа.

Предложение:
Создать сообщество ответственных игроков Bang!, которые:
1. Фиксируют случаи нечестной игры (на основе нескольких партий с одним и тем же игроком)
2. Публикуют обоснованные жалобы с никами игроков и примерами нарушений
3. Коллективно оценивают каждую жалобу
4. Формируют черный список игроков, которые систематически нарушают правила или не умеют играть

Цель:
- Игроки сообщества смогут заочно добавлять в чёрный список нежелательных игроков, тем самым исключая негативный опыт
- Это создаст здоровую мотивацию для новых игроков изучать правила
- Улучшится общий уровень игры и честность на платформе

Важно:
Это НЕ призыв к травле, а инструмент для защиты честной игры. Каждая жалоба должна быть обоснована конкретными примерами из нескольких партий.

Приглашаю к обсуждению:
- Кто сталкивался с подобными проблемами?
- Поддерживаете ли вы такую инициативу?
- Какие предложения по улучшению системы?

Давайте вместе сделаем Bang! на BGA лучше!

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Dear BGA Community,

I would like to raise an important issue that many Bang! players face on our platform.

The Problem:
Many players either don't know the rules or intentionally break them by favoring certain roles. A classic example: in a 5-player game, the Renegade acts like the Sheriff's Deputy until all Outlaws are eliminated, attacking the Outlaws. As a result, when it comes down to 2 vs 1 (Sheriff + Deputy vs Renegade), the Sheriff's team easily secures the win. The Outlaws have almost no chance of winning under these circumstances.

This violates the very mechanics of the game, where the Renegade must act independently and in their own interest, rather than acting as a "second Deputy" for the Sheriff.

The Proposal:
Create a community of responsible Bang! players who will:
1. Document cases of unfair play (based on multiple games with the same player)
2. Publish substantiated complaints with player nicknames and examples of violations
3. Collectively evaluate each complaint
4. Create a blacklist of players who systematically break the rules or don't know how to play properly

The Goal:
- Community members will be able to add undesirable players to a shared blacklist, thus preventing negative gaming experiences.
- This will create healthy motivation for new players to learn the rules.
- The overall level of play and fairness on the platform will improve.

Important:
This is NOT a call for harassment, but a tool to protect fair play. Every complaint must be backed up by specific examples from multiple games.

I invite you to discuss:
- Who has faced similar problems?
- Do you support this initiative?
- What suggestions do you have to improve the system?

Let's make Bang! on BGA better together!

[tbhp]

Some games are just broken. If there is a loophole in the rules that allows players to secure wins in an absurd manner, that's on the creators who missed something major in their conception of the games, not on the players who are simply playing the game in the most effective way it can be played, absurd as that may be.

Sure, you could create a community where players agree to play a certain way, but the site won't be able to do anything to regulate the games that take place in that community, since players are playing according to the rules. So there is no guarantee you won't have some bad apples in your group who still decide to take advantage of those loopholes in the tournaments or games you play.

[lefalaf]

I see no rules violation in your example.

The renegade is playing like a renegade. They are supposed to betray and fool others. That's always how I used to see it played IRL 20 years ago too.

If the outlaws are not doing well, then they need to get better at detecting who the renegade is.

[gaarel2]

In your scenario the renegate would lose, I don't see the need of penalising him further, he has already lost because he has not understood his role.

[JoJocage]

Some games are just broken. If there is a loophole in the rules that allows players to secure wins in an absurd manner, that's on the creators who missed something major in their conception of the games, not on the players who are simply playing the game in the most effective way it can be played, absurd as that may be.

Sure, you could create a community where players agree to play a certain way, but the site won't be able to do anything to regulate the games that take place in that community, since players are playing according to the rules. So there is no guarantee you won't have some bad apples in your group who still decide to take advantage of those loopholes in the tournaments or games you play.

I understand that the game rules don't explicitly forbid the Renegade from killing the Outlaws first, then the Deputies, and finally winning the duel against the Sheriff. I've even seen one such game, but there the Renegade just got lucky playing as Suzy Lafayette. However, this goes against the game's strategy, which implies that the Renegade must maintain a balance between the sides. Yes, it's difficult and requires thinking, but the other roles aren't handed out easily either.

[JoJocage]

I see no rules violation in your example.

The renegade is playing like a renegade. They are supposed to betray and fool others. That's always how I used to see it played IRL 20 years ago too.

If the outlaws are not doing well, then they need to get better at detecting who the renegade is.

There is indeed no rules violation here - I don't argue that. But there is a violation of the game's strategy. In essence, by playing as the Renegade the way I described, you practically deprive yourself of the chance to win the game and 100% deprive the Outlaws of any chance to win (well, unless we count the Dynamite exploding in the Sheriff's hands after all the Outlaws are dead ).

[JoJocage]

In your scenario the renegate would lose, I don't see the need of penalising him further, he has already lost because he has not understood his role.

Yes, that's true. But with his foolish play, he deprived the Outlaws of any chance to fight for victory. That's my whole point.

[Drake Mallard]

In every game of Bang I have ever played - the Renegade acts like a Deputy as long as possible. It's the only way to avoid detection and to survive long enough for the showdown. That strategy assumes that the outlaws are doing a good job of killing the deputies. If they aren't, then they were probably going to lose anyway.

[JoJocage]

In every game of Bang I have ever played - the Renegade acts like a Deputy as long as possible. It's the only way to avoid detection and to survive long enough for the showdown. That strategy assumes that the outlaws are doing a good job of killing the deputies. If they aren't, then they were probably going to lose anyway.

Why should the Outlaws kill the Renegade? Their goal is to kill the Sheriff. That's it. If they waste resources on the Renegade, they won't win either.
This also plays right into the Sheriff's hands.

[Drake Mallard]

... for the exact same reason: To avoid detection. And if the deputies are dead, then once the outlaws feel safe attacking the sheriff, there are fewer people to heal him/her. (I'm starting to think that my groups play Bang very differently than some others). In my experience, the meta-game looks like this: Everyone pretends to be a deputy at the beginning, while damaging everyone else "equally". If you're lucky, you get cards that damage all players. If not, you shoot your neighbors, and claim that you had no choice, because of range. People do make guesses, and their "equal" distribution of damage tends to skew slightly based on their role and their guesses about others ... but people avoid obvious signs as long as they can.

For deputies, this works, because the odds are good that you want to kill everyone that isn't the sheriff. For outlaws this works, because it softens up the deputies, and if you get all-target cards, you can soften up the sheriff without suspicion. For the renegade it works, because you want to soften up everyone. If anyone immediately attacks the sheriff, everyone knows they're an outlaw, so they get targeted by the deputies (and the Renegade, pretending to be a deputy).