Does we can make a claim about supposed unsportlike conduct ?

[BB0DAY]

Hi

Today, I was kicked from one game at FDe. I recognize it, I was in late of -40hours.

Now, it was the very last time, I was in 1st place and I had to play one last move. Due to personal review during the day, I back on game only at end of the evening and I see that I’m kicked !

Now, I want to claim about my karma back, and I want to notice that someone on the game, probably for win a place, kick me at the very last moment, even on the game the 2nd (who was 3rd before) is still on the game with -3 days !

https://boardgamearena.com/tableview?table=861401034


Some moderator can make me feedback ?

[FrankJones]

You were minus 40 hours and as a result, you were expelled from the game.

I am not sure what (or why) you expect a moderator to do about this.

[Meeplelowda]

Hi

Today, I was kicked from one game at FDe. I recognize it, I was in late of -40hours.

Now, it was the very last time, I was in 1st place and I had to play one last move. Due to personal review during the day, I back on game only at end of the evening and I see that I’m kicked !

Now, I want to claim about my karma back, and I want to notice that someone on the game, probably for win a place, kick me at the very last moment, even on the game the 2nd (who was 3rd before) is still on the game with -3 days !

https://boardgamearena.com/tableview?table=861401034


Some moderator can make me feedback ?

Given that 3 out of 8 players went over time, it's a sign that the round time, even at 2 months, was too short. I sampled other games in the tournament, and there's a table where 4 out of 8 players are out of time and another where 5 out of 7 players ran out of time.

That said, tournaments can be set so that someone cannot be kicked. You can choose only to join tournaments with that setting applied if you want. There's nothing a moderator can or should do. You did run out of time.

[FrankJones]

Wait. So, players are out of time because they are not completing the round fast enough? I am confused.

I assumed minus 40 hours meant that a move was due 40 hours ago.

[nik592]

Wait. So, players are out of time because they are not completing the round fast enough? I am confused.

I assumed minus 40 hours meant that a move was due 40 hours ago.

It's a tournament - so time is fixed and you don't get an increment each time it's your turn. I assume you know how this works (not sure if you play tournaments), but for anyone who doesn't, you just start with (for example) 5 days on your clock. If it takes you 24 hours to make your first seven moves, now you're at -48 hours. Next time it's your move you play, your clock starts at -48 hours and continues to tick further into the negative.

Expecting to only move once per day is probably unreasonable in most tournaments, but typically what happens is that your turn comes up shortly into your sleep cycle, and you don't re-emerge for 6-8 hours. If total time is only 1 day, it only takes you 3-4 moves to be in the negative and you cannot recover. It's up to the tournament creator to choose the best amount of time per round, though that can be difficult to gauge (it's usually pretty clear when it's too short though). I personally don't play any tournaments where time per player isn't at least 3 days, usually more, and I often avoid complex/long games altogether (actually, for quite some time, I've just been avoiding tournaments, period). Choosing a tournament where kicking isn't allowed can help, though if max table time is reached, the game is still ended and rankings determined by each player's remaining time (which is also pretty arbitrary and subject to disadvantages based on player order and the active time of the player before you in relation to your own active time).

In short, I don't think anyone should enter tournaments without an expectation that games may end unfairly due to timing. Choose ones with reasonable table lengths, choose non-kick if you want to, do your best to make your moves as often as possible, and if you get kicked or placed unfairly due to timing, let it go. The karma penalty is smaller, and you're unlikely to get any recourse for perceived unfairness (doing so would generally lead to perceived unfairness for a bunch of others in the tournament anyway). If you don't like those terms, I'd suggest avoiding tournaments.

[FrankJones]

Wait. So, players are out of time because they are not completing the round fast enough? I am confused.

I assumed minus 40 hours meant that a move was due 40 hours ago.

It's a tournament - so time is fixed and you don't get an increment each time it's your turn. I assume you know how this works (not sure if you play tournaments), but for anyone who doesn't, you just start with (for example) 5 days on your clock. If it takes you 24 hours to make your first seven moves, now you're at -48 hours. Next time it's your move you play, your clock starts at -48 hours and continues to tick further into the negative.

Expecting to only move once per day is probably unreasonable in most tournaments, but typically what happens is that your turn comes up shortly into your sleep cycle, and you don't re-emerge for 6-8 hours. If total time is only 1 day, it only takes you 3-4 moves to be in the negative and you cannot recover. It's up to the tournament creator to choose the best amount of time per round, though that can be difficult to gauge (it's usually pretty clear when it's too short though). I personally don't play any tournaments where time per player isn't at least 3 days, usually more, and I often avoid complex/long games altogether (actually, for quite some time, I've just been avoiding tournaments, period). Choosing a tournament where kicking isn't allowed can help, though if max table time is reached, the game is still ended and rankings determined by each player's remaining time (which is also pretty arbitrary and subject to disadvantages based on player order and the active time of the player before you in relation to your own active time).

In short, I don't think anyone should enter tournaments without an expectation that games may end unfairly due to timing. Choose ones with reasonable table lengths, choose non-kick if you want to, do your best to make your moves as often as possible, and if you get kicked or placed unfairly due to timing, let it go. The karma penalty is smaller, and you're unlikely to get any recourse for perceived unfairness (doing so would generally lead to perceived unfairness for a bunch of others in the tournament anyway). If you don't like those terms, I'd suggest avoiding tournaments.

Yeah. I agree.

I cannot even see straight; too much bourbon, but I am pretty sure I agree. Tournaments are bad and poorly designed.

[tbhp]

I'm not sure why you think you should get your karma back. As for your opponent grabbing an unfair win, that's unfortunately not something you can report them about. The site doesn't make a distinction between "kicking a player who was gonna lose anyway" and "kicking a player who was going to win". That's the kind of thing that would require a human jury to judge.

[tbhp]

Now that I think about it, looking at the situation in your game where lots of players ran out of time, but you were only kicked at the last moment just to prevent you from winning, I think the site could have a special handling for cases like that.

For example, once a player runs out of time, the other players would have to decide at this specific moment if they want to kick them out or not. Once their next move is done, they can't kick out the player anymore.

That seems like a rule that would benefit everyone, since players wouldn't be able to drag games with the intent of kicking if they end up losing, and the players who have less nefarious reasons for kicking would still be able to do so if they wish.

[Silene]

[...] players would have to decide at this specific moment if they want to kick them out or not. Once their next move is done, they can't kick out the player anymore.

That seems like a rule that would benefit everyone, [...]

can you really not see the very common use case where nice players give grace for a while but then the player is dragging on and on and then disappears again while still in the middle of the game?

in your suggestion, when i let them go to -2 and they then do 1 move and then they are gone for good, i have lost my rights to kick?

i think his scenario is more common than you seem to assume.

[FrankJones]

[...] players would have to decide at this specific moment if they want to kick them out or not. Once their next move is done, they can't kick out the player anymore.

That seems like a rule that would benefit everyone, [...]

can you really not see the very common use case where nice players give grace for a while but then the player is dragging on and on and then disappears again while still in the middle of the game?

in your suggestion, when i let them go to -2 and they then do 1 move and then they are gone for good, i have lost my rights to kick?

i think his scenario is more common than you seem to assume.

I guess that's why nice guys finish last? Just kick them before they kick you. Not ideal, I realize.